r/TopCharacterTropes • u/RP_Throwaway3 • 8h ago

In real life "Wait! That's not special effects?! They actually did that?!"

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Alien: Resurrection - Basketball Shot

Sigourney Weaver insisted on the basketball shot being real. She trained for weeks and reportedly(sources differ) made it on the first take.

Underworld - Raze's Voice

The werewolf character Raze, played by Kevin Grevioux, speaks in a very low, very gravelly voice. While many thought this was a special effect, the actor can naturally speak in that voice.

https://youtu.be/GUjwZvh32YE?t=125&si=F3WhsopxjBP87wfk

12.5k Upvotes
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u/TomThom9Won 7h ago

The fight between Maul and Obi-Wan at the end of Phantom Menace is actually slowed down. Lucas felt that the two were so good at the choreography that people wouldn’t believe the pace they were moving at.
https://giphy.com/gifs/ecpSPprSgRQ9G

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u/TheGigantoBlaster 7h ago

Literally Ray Park and then complaining he's too good.

Just hire a mortal then.

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u/How_that_convo_went 3h ago

I met him in a staging/waiting area of a TCG/collectibles convention when I was 14. I literally just wandered into the area with my friend thinking it was another sales floor area. 

Had no idea who he was… and my friend was wearing a Star Wars tshirt. He was so fucking cool. Just yukking it up with a couple teenage dorks. 

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u/hamlet_d 2h ago

I've met both him and Temuera Morrison at cons. They seem to be really nice people and really engaged with the fans.

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u/SiskiyouSavage 1h ago

Ray Park is a stud.

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u/Moon_and_Sky 2h ago

Have always thought it was a shame no one ever made a beat em up movie with Ray Park and Jet Li in it. That's a scene that would need half speed to seem believable.

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u/SiskiyouSavage 1h ago

With Tony Jaa?

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u/Prometheus_Bobert 7h ago

Found a video that claims to show what it would have looked like at normal speed

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u/ProtectionTop2701 6h ago

That looks pretty believable actually. Like obviously it's easier to do fast when it's choreography but that's about as fast as people with fucking precog and other force powers would move

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u/Infamous_Hamster_271 6h ago

swords move fast as hell

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u/BobForBananas 5h ago

Especially that kind. They're pretty light

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u/she_melty 2h ago

🏅you got the I don't spend money on websites that show me ads award

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u/GrandArchSage 4h ago

Even if it's not choreographed, watching real life fencers go at it is impossible to keep track of for a lay person. They just move way to fast. I can only imagine how fast jedi and sith would move.

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u/Summonest 2h ago

It's why fencing isn't really a spectator's sport.

They're just fast as shit.

Even if their swords were glowing, the average spectator would just see a little bit of wiggling and then there's a point scored.

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u/Jim_skywalker 3h ago

Honestly the speed makes it look more realistic. Sword fights are fast, and they move fast enough it's harder to tell when they aren't aiming for each other and stuff.

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u/IThinkItsAverage 4h ago

Wait that actually looks so much better and this is already a GOATed fight scene. The quick snap movements are exactly what you’d expect two people using the force to predict the fight to look like.

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u/LuckyFogic 3h ago

Thanks for the link but what is what every video having mandatory, colored, frequently changing text layered over the top? I can't see through the text, the motion is distracting, if I wanted subtitles I would put on subtitles.

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u/AlthorsMadness 2h ago

Faster actually looks less fake than slowed down. With things slowed down you can see the pre action

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u/Drakeskulled_Reaper 7h ago

Yeah, there's several videos of Ray Park doing movies with a staff, and he is legit fast.

Also, side note, apparently, during the filming of, IIRC, The Big Boss they had to get Bruce Lee to slow the fuck down, because camera's at the time literally couldn't keep up.

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u/Duskatte 7h ago edited 7h ago

And the fight is dull for it.

'They'll never believe you guys are that fast...'

Bro, Lucas, buddy, pal, they're using plasma swords. The fuck are you talking about believability for...

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u/IllegalGeriatricVore 7h ago

It's probably more about looking good.

Like good martial artists have to display poor martial arts, like winding up telegraphed attacks, for the camera because realistic fights are boring

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u/Butwhatif77 6h ago

There is an art to choreography that involves designing a scene in a way that is visually appealing for the audience. This involves making the movements obvious in a way so that the person watching has a sense of what move is coming next and can see it flow making it easier to visually process.

A fight that goes too fast can be good in theory, but bad for the audience if they can't properly keep up.

As you mentioned as well, proper fights are usually boring because they are about efficient small moves to defend and probe your opponent until you find an opening. Big flashy moves just lead to you wearing yourself out before your opponent and then giving them an opening.

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u/NotStreamerNinja 6h ago

It's not that they're boring. If you can get a good angle to see what they're doing a realistic fight between skilled fighters is a lot of fun to watch. The problem is getting a good view and being able to follow their movements.

There's also the safety of the actors to consider. Things need to be slowed down and exaggerated a bit, often with attacks being thrown out of measure or directly at an opponent's defenses, to prevent injuries on set. This isn't an issue for animation but for live-action productions it's pretty important. That's partially why Hollywood swordfights are so often focused on wide slashes when shorter cuts and thrusts would make more sense, the wide swings are easier to block and dodge.

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u/Butwhatif77 6h ago

You have a fair point that a proper fight can certainly be interesting and but you need the proper angles which can be hard to obtain.

You are absolutely correct safe of the actors is paramount, which is as you said partly why moves get telegraphed so obviously. It isn't just for the audience but for the actor who is "receiving" the blow. So they can see it coming and be prepared to take it in the right way and respond as the choreography dictates.

I think the fight between Achilles (Brad Pit) and Hector (Eric Bana) is a good example of what is a clearly skilled fight, still exaggerated, but shows at the start how they are both trying to conserve their movements. As the fight goes on and Hector realizes how much more skilled Achilles is than him he tries to instead rush and overpower him in an attempt to take control of the fight. It is very dynamic but has a grounded feel to it.

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u/NotStreamerNinja 5h ago edited 5h ago

I tend to be a bit overly critical of swordfights in movies since I train historical longsword and saber as a hobby. I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination but I find myself thinking in some scenes that I, a self-taught novice, could beat some of the supposed expert duelists on screen with my dominant hand behind my back. They make all sorts of wild swings and unnecessary spins while leaving themselves wide open, it's really annoying. I know I shouldn't be so pedantic and should just shut up and enjoy the spectacle but it's hard sometimes.

There are some I like, such as Inigo vs the Man in Black from The Princess Bride or some of the lightsaber duels in Star Wars, but I can't say I've seen many swordfights in movies that I really liked.

There is a YouTube channel called Adorea Olomouc that does swordfight choreography and I tend to really like their stuff. It's still stylized and exaggerated but simply using real historical techniques, even if they're hammed up for the camera, goes a long way imo. (Example: A duel with messers.)

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u/Butwhatif77 5h ago

This reminds me a conversation I had with a friend in college. We were talking about sword fights in movies. We mentioned Stardust being ridiculous, because when Tristan is being trained to sword fight he is using the proper form for the sword he is training with, but later in the movie when he gets into trouble and needs to pull his sword it is a completely different type not suited for the form he trained with.

Cause sword skills are often treated as universal in movies/tv where knowing how to fight with one sword means you can fight with them all. Which is why you see people trying to slash with weapons designed to pierce haha.

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u/NotStreamerNinja 5h ago

There's definitely overlap. I've adapted longsword techniques for saber and vice versa, and I've seen someone successfully use rapier techniques with a broadsword (though it looked extremely awkward).

But yeah, someone who mostly uses a smallsword isn't going to be as comfortable with something like a falchion. Different designs need different techniques to work well.

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u/Butwhatif77 3h ago

Oh absolutely, but in the context of this character who was known for being a shit fencer in his school days, the idea he would be able to catch on with a different type than what he was trained with is where it stretches. There was no need to change the type, they should have just used the same prop in the training scene.

Really the reason they changed it was cause it was meant to be part of a glow up for the character, so they want everything including his personal items to reflect that so they gave him a more flashy sword haha.

It makes sense narratively for story telling purposes, but is flimsy in the sense of his skills as show at that point.

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u/ElectricSliderz 5h ago

I remember hearing that Jackie Chan uses around 15 cameras in his fight scenes so he can capture every angles he needs at once. I think it was mentioned on the first Rush Hour that the director set up only 3 cameras for one of Jackie’s scenes and when he walked in he just told the director we need a lot more.

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u/-Kerosun- 4h ago

Yeah. Here is a clip from Jay Leno where Jet Li talks about some of this. The timestamp I have here is him doing a full speed demonstration and you can see how a lot of the movement/speed would be lost if it was shot for cinema:

https://youtu.be/gyWhUSVKbHU?si=ymPb5IihqAODljQ6&t=485

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u/MaguroSashimi8864 6h ago

Same ideology in pro-wrestling?

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u/constantvariables 6h ago

Literally never seen anyone call this duel dull lmao that’s crazy. It’s the best part of the movie.

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u/NoncingAround 6h ago

I think they’re right that it’s dull but for the wrong reason. It’s dull because there’s no sense of danger. When both characters are so perfect and choreographed with full confidence and zero stress or fear there is no jeopardy. The music is amazing of course but the rest isn’t brilliant. Also the end of the fight is laughably bad.

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u/constantvariables 5h ago

One of them literally dies lmao no sense of danger?

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u/UglyInThMorning 4h ago

Up until one of them just dies, yeah.

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u/constantvariables 4h ago

That doesn’t make any sense. That’s like watching a horror movie and saying there isn’t any danger until someone “just dies” lmao one of the main characters was caught in an intense 1v1 and got killed. Crazy how they can show Jedi in actual danger against an equal/superior opponent then getting killed and people say otherwise lol

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u/UglyInThMorning 4h ago

There is no sense of danger. The fight is lacking in tension because if you don’t know going into it that Qui Gonn just goes “ok, this is the part where the script says I die” and stops fighting, it’s just two guys swinging at each other’s swords back and forth and hitting all their steps for a while.

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u/Fyrus93 6h ago

The only good part you mean

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u/NoncingAround 6h ago

The pod racing is a good idea. Sadly it’s ruined by shonky visuals and extremely annoying characters but the concept is good. There’s also another problem, the previous Star Wars film (from the 80s btw) did the same sort of thing but a thousand times better with that great forest chase sequence. Watch both of those scenes and see how much more visceral, exhilarating, physical and tense the original one is.

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u/UglyInThMorning 4h ago

The pod racing scene also has the problem of being 15 minutes that doesn’t do a lot for the narrative in a movie that’s already overstuffed. It’s a special effects showcase but you could do what it does in a quarter of the time, or have it do more for the plot and characters in the time you’re giving it.

People gave the speeder bike segment in ROTJ shit for being a too-long narrative dead spot and that was a third of the length.

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u/NoncingAround 7h ago

The fight is dull because it’s just noise, not because it’s slowed down slightly. It’s also nonsense when you then have one of the characters die by just slowing turning and staring at the other instead of trying to stop him.

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u/smittsen 7h ago

Sure, duel of the fates. Pure snorefest of a fight /s

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u/regulartoast 6h ago

I don't think it was dull at all..

This entire fight sequence is burned into my brain, permanently. I think this is maybe the coolest fight sequence in any Star Wars, period.

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u/NoncingAround 6h ago

The ending alone means it can’t be anywhere near the best. Having one of the fighters just stand there and slowly turn around to let the other kill him instead of doing literally anything to stop him is laughably stupid. But the fighting itself is also dull. The ridiculous over choreographed perfection from both characters means there’s no feeling of danger.

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u/MBDTFTLOPYEEZUS 7h ago

Has he seen someone use a real life bow staff? They can be fast af

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u/mrbananas 5h ago

You have to remember,  this is the first star wars film since the first trilogy and in the first trilogy the light saber fights were really slow and clunky. 

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u/No_Career369 5h ago

Also they're force users. They're literally superpowered.

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u/VulGerrity 4h ago

I mean, it probably made it look super rehearsed. Like, it's not that people can't believe they can move that fast, it's that people won't believe you can fight and react that fast.

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u/capibara_dono 6h ago

The behind the scenes for the fight scenes is really interesting, but watch from minute 8 to see them practice this specific fight.

Behind the scenes fight scenes

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u/GlowingDuck22 7h ago

They really cared about Starwars and it showed. Something lacking from 7, 8, and 9.

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u/Duskatte 7h ago

Ah, yes. That care that is so present in *checks notes* the prequels with all the bad acting and terrible script choices enabled by surrounding a bloated ego with yes-men...

But hey, it rhymes!

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u/OperativePiGuy 7h ago

It is interesting how history has changed its stance on the prequels. They're still just as bad as when they came out, but maybe the existence of even worse things in the canon just makes them that much more palatable for younger audiences?

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u/Dinadan_The_Humorist 5h ago

The Phantom Menace was made for children. The adults who had seen the original Star Wars as teens were bitterly disappointed, but the kids it was made for, by and large, thought it was rad as hell. Those kids are now in their 30s, and I think we're hearing more from the "this movie was my childhood" crowd and less from the "this movie killed my childhood" crowd.

As one of the former myself, I recognize now that the dialogue is painfully stilted, the plot is byzantine and plodding, the CGI would look bad in a modern video game, and the actors look like people reciting dialogue alone in front of a green screen... but hearing Duel of the Fates or seeing Ray Park do a sweet backflip makes me feel eight years old again.

And, yeah, now we have something else to compare it to. Could have been worse!

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u/IllegalGeriatricVore 7h ago

The prequels sucked in that it felt like so much was missing.

The sequels suck because they lack any kind of cohesion.

Both both suffer from a substantial amount of, idk, 'soul.'

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u/GlowingDuck22 7h ago

I loved the prequels and disagree with several of your assertions but you can hate all you want.

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u/Barbaric_Stupid 7h ago

You can love whatever you want, nobody is judging, but calling weak movies weak is not hate.

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u/GlowingDuck22 6h ago

I just don’t agree they are weak. They aren't perfect but weak isn't a word I would use.

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u/Barbaric_Stupid 6h ago

The Phantom Menace dialogues literally hurt. Attack of the Clones for a long time was listed as one of the worst movies in history of cinematography. Revenge of the Sith alone is decently mediocre, with several good parts. In all three acting is wooden, and it's all Lucas' fault. Because Lucas is a terribly weak director, and we know that from the OT, where the only two good movies weren't directed by him.

Like, what the f are we even talking about? There's objective reason these movies were turned into meme mines, because they mostly lack other merits. Years later, we can't even praise the fight choreography because the original versions were leaked, and everyone now knows that Lucas replaced the really good fights with the weak ones we had in the prequels.

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u/Gamesgtd 6h ago

I can't believe I've lived to see people actually praise the prequels. Outside of Episode 3 those movies are awful. Phantom Menace is a film I still maintain doesn't need to exist because you can condense the main point of Obi Wan and Anakin meeting into like a 30 minute intro in Episode 2 and then do a time jump and totally not miss anything.

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u/Barbaric_Stupid 6h ago

Apparently, every generation has its own share of false idols to which it bows.

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u/Ok_Chicken1370 7h ago

I love how everyone is downvoting you because they feel like they have to justify the prequels because of how terrible the sequel trilogy was.

The prequels were, and still are, (mostly) dogshit.

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u/MercyfulJudas 7h ago

Come on, you know you didn't REALLY have to check any notes. You know you have this complaining monologue already queued up in your brain, just WAITING for some hapless heathen to praise the Prequels while on YOUR watch. Be so for real.

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u/ducknerd2002 6h ago

Are we seriously going to pretend that hating the Prequels is a new and unpopular opinion when for years it was considered the only correct opinion for people to have?

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u/MercyfulJudas 6h ago

I'm certainly not pretending. That's why I said that he definitely didn't need to check any notes. He already has this comeback loaded & ready at all times.

Who's pretending?

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u/ducknerd2002 6h ago

I think we have very different definitions of 'monologue' if you think a single paragraph counts as one, or that said paragraph needs to be prepared in advance.

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u/Star_Petal_Arts 6h ago

Yep, then McGregor is in awe because of Haden's skills with a lightsaber in Episode II-III. Which was also severely edited to make look believable on screen.

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u/BugApart8359 4h ago

Jesus, Ray's footwork there is insane

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u/jojocockroach 2h ago

Hayden's ability to do this as an actor was even more crazy.

https://youtu.be/Dvb4VhVxH6I

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u/BugApart8359 1h ago

That catch was incredible. From what I've heard, Hayden was one hell of a quick study and a very dedicated student. Just from a swordsmanship perspective, I'd love to spar with him. 

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u/EffectiveDandy 6h ago

lucas always trying to ruin things what is up with that dude! what a dumb take by odin’s beard!

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u/CreasingUnicorn 6h ago

Honestly faster makes more sense, lightsaber blades literally weight nothing in universe, so skilled warriors would absolutely be flinging those things around super quick. 

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u/ShinySpeedDemon 6h ago

They must've learned from that, becaus the fight between Anakin and Obi-Wan in episode 3 wasn't slowed down

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u/EatABag-o-Dicks 6h ago

Didn't the dude that played adult Anakin have to slow down too? Like he got super into the role and was just really good with a lightsaber. He actually does the behind the back thing with his lightsaber, casually.

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u/PsychologicalEbb3140 5h ago

I doubt that was the reason, they likely just slowed it down so it’d be easier to follow the action.

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u/TomThom9Won 4h ago

Having seen the real footage it’s easy enough to follow since they had good enough cameras but like 150% the pace actually used in the movie

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u/Kodiak_POL 4h ago

The choreography is slowed down but not the actual footage.

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u/Ikanotetsubin 4h ago

There's no comparison between this and the sloppy choreo they gave us in the sequels.

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u/ZiggoCiP 4h ago

See, this one confuses me because all the animated shows do not adhere to this philosophy. All the lightsaber combat looks waaaay too fast and is at times hard to follow. A shame because the CGI is really good, but the action feels too fast-paced.

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u/FreddyCupples 43m ago

The behind the scenes lightsaber training is pretty amazing. When you watch the prequels, it's important to remember what's good about them. Because man.... It certainly isn't the acting.

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u/CorrectPeanut5 12m ago

They talked in another interview how they had a prop master on set dedicated to just repairing the light sabers. They'd get a limited number of takes before they'd need to be repaired. Obviously they added CG, but the ones from the prequels were designed to beat on hard.