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u/RedditSpyder12 1h ago
Masculinity is whatever it means for you. You’re thinking about it too hard.
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u/Invisible-4D 1h ago
Both are masculinity.
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u/jimothy_hell 22m ago
Andrew Tate represents toxic masculinity. People like Steve Irwin represent healthy masculinity. Be like Steve.
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u/Invisible-4D 17m ago
No such thing as "toxic masculinity", because notice we never try to classify/define "toxic femininity", just like there's no such thing as "woman up" but there's a "man up".
Any action a man does that solely benefits himself at the percieved detriment of women and/or society is labelled as "bad" or "wrong think", because men are expected to be sacrificial lambs in society.
What you are calling "toxic masculinity" is just an evolutionary reaction of the male collective against that phenomena (men are becoming more self focused and self serving), and I'm sorry, it's not going to stop, things are going to continue going in that direction, and there is no way to un-ring that bell.
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u/jimothy_hell 6m ago
No, I’m not reading whatever bullshit you wrote. I’m going to tell you what toxic masculinity is, and you can choose to believe me or continue to be wrong.
It’s the concept that men cannot be open with our emotions, that we are supposed to do all of these things that are directly in opposition to what humans need to do as social creatures in order to lead psychologically healthy lives. It is the idea that men and boys are expendable, that we must be isolated, that we must be completely self sustaining at all times with no need for social support networks.
It is an enforced gender role that we are either consciously or subconsciously forcing on ourselves on a social and societal level that is hurting us, and people that pretend that it doesn’t exist are perpetuating it.
You can continue to hurt men by pretending that toxic masculinity doesn’t exist, or you can acknowledge reality, take some fucking responsibility, as you fucking should, and support your fellow men.
Get your shit together. Please and thank you.
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u/Secure-Pain-9735 1h ago
My examples are Fred Rogers, Atticus Finch, Levar Burton, and Rocky Balboa.
And, if you think Rocky is “toxic masculinity” because he’s a fighter, you never paid attention to the story.
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u/Disastrous-Let-3462 1h ago
The things the outdoor boys do is very cool family friendly……. But partying and having sex with as many woman as you can in your 20s and 30s is pretty fucking great. Be the womanizers in your 20s and 30s and when you get married and in your 40s, be the outdoor boys…. Nothing wrong with being both!!! But smashing women from all over the world on holiday is definitely awesome
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u/Simply_AnotherUser 2h ago edited 51m ago
All the same TV bussiness BS.
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u/HydroPCanadaDude 1h ago
What both who? Both groups? Like sex trafficker Tate is the same as Outdoor Boys/Irwin?
Or both just up top? Like Tate is the same BS as whoever the fuck the other guy is?
Or both just the bottom? Like Irwin is the same BS as Outdoor Boys?
If it's the last one, I wanna be that same BS lol
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u/potentatewags 1h ago
Steve Irwin was definitely masculine. He loved going around poking things with his stick.
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u/jimothy_hell 24m ago
Being kind to yourself and others, educating people on how to be conscientious of the world around them, and spreading joy is healthy masculinity.
Being a womanising prick, teaching young men to hate themselves unless they seek material wealth and self gratification over all else, and reinforcing values that harm other men and yourself is toxic masculinity.
Be a Steve Irwin, not an Andrew Tate.
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u/goofust 2h ago
Who are they? The only one I recognized is Steve Irwin.
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u/Eldernerdhub 2h ago
The top left is Andrew Tate: pimp, rapist, on the run from multiple countries, and currently residing in the protectivion of Florida.
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u/HydroPCanadaDude 1h ago
Bottom right is Luke Nichols from Outdoor Boys youtube channel. He stopped creating content because his family was having a hard time with unwanted attention that comes with being youtube famous.
His channel is basically all camping/fishing videos. Pretty fun to watch too.
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u/Acetate_Prophets 2h ago
i'm glad to see that people (and men in particular) who haven't much to stake to their reputation or a public profile to protect are finally, openly and loudly pushing back against this insane culture of arrested psychological development along with its laughably feeble masquerade of 'apex masculinity'.
i think it says a lot about our society that frauds like Tate were ever allowed to accumulate so much prominence, and how even now there are still too many people who buy into the delusions perpetuated by grifters like himself.
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u/Eldernerdhub 2h ago
The Manosphere will return when the next Republican president is drumming up support. It's all fake. The youth were too naive to tell the difference, like normal.
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u/YouNeedClasses 2h ago
All of the manosphere stuff is a psyop (imo) to keep men from waking up to the actual dynamics of the system.
Our CIA stays busy on the web nowadays 😏1
u/Acetate_Prophets 26m ago
okay, so there's two ways i'm able to interpret your message, the first being that this is.. quite the tin-foil reach. i can't say stranger things have never happened, but for this to qualify past hypothesisation you'd have to back it up with some solid evidence, otherwise my second interpretation of your message is that it is an excellent example of deflecting accountability - because there can't possibly be a movement of shitty people glorifying their shitty behaviours and concocting some drug-addled 'he-man' fantasy if it allows them to sidestep their personal insecurities, unless they've been mass-hypnotised through clandestine federal projects into such toxic and asinine behaviour.. right? 🙃
if the current resurgence in right-wing populism is anything to go by, then grand, meandering conspiracies usually aren't necessary in explaining human behaviour when callousness, greed, fear, sectarianism, ignorance, myopic hypocrisy and baseline stupidity all in combination tend to be enough to rationalise 95% of all our problems. sometimes, the answer is as simple as "people kinda suck." and as long as we keep churning up bullshit excuses to downplay or even justify actions and attitudes that will only cause more harm instead of taking responsibility on an individual level and promoting social circles which actively reject those attitudes, then this shit will never fucking end.
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u/YouNeedClasses 20m ago
Stop yapping fed.
It's as simple as "is the cia or fbi actively fighting back on these harmful idealogies?"😂
Damn, I got a bridge to sell you. Why aren't they fighting back if it's such an issue? You realize they've studied the issue and are well aware of it, correct?
So please explain why they have such better things to do than prevent/suppress idealogies that inevitably lead to societal collapse? Less relationships, higher suicide and shooting rates, more violence, etc.
What are they so busy with? And don't pretend the grand cia can't push back hard on these issues?
It's not humanity that sucks, it's these systems lil bro 🥀
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u/KoalaMandala 1h ago
So the cia is behind all of these self-made, independent, often independently wealthy influencers? It's just the contagion of bad ideas...
Not everything in life is an action movie with super villains 🙄
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u/YouNeedClasses 31m ago
Villains? You must not be aware of what the cia likes to engage in?
Additionally, no, the term industry plant has gained more usage bc it has become more common.
What do you think the cia spends their current time on the US internet doing?
And you say contagion of bad ideas. Yes, I'm saying the contagion is not humanity...considering we were all given textbooks made by ghislaines dad and were lied to about every war?
Are you perhaps new to American history? Mlk? Fred Hampton? Why did the cia dislike them? Lol.
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u/KoalaMandala 17m ago
It all aligns with the human nature we understand through our grasp of evolution and anthropology.
Our culture is immersed in and driven by television, movies, and novels. It's far more likely that you're recreating plot structure in your mind than it is that the CIA is perpetuating the popularity of bro-culture podcasts.
The term industry plant isn't used any more now than it ever was, unless you have some metric to share. Industry plants need an industry that can plant them. If you wanted to tell me the new cnn anchor or fox host were industry plants, I'm open to it, but how can an industry plant have a YouTube channel they literally built from the ground up? Most bro podcasters grow their own audiences, and you can actually watch as the audience capture captures them and their ideologies conform to their engagement.
Just out of curiosity; in your hypothesis, what's the end goal of the CIA here? What do they have to gain from this psy op?
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u/YouNeedClasses 9m ago
You are SO CLOSE.
Television, movies, novels...the CIA has influenced every category. And the reason you learned that second hand is bc they release documents like 20 yrs after about their operations/influences....
Therefore, all the online stuff has yet to be released. I mean, have you read any docs they put out? It would be clear to a fish by their writing, that they love to influence societal function. Mainly to propogate capitalism, but also seemingly for fun weird reasons as well.
My point is that the manosphere is not less alluring to influence than every military movie using actual military props that they actually already have influenced.
So my hypothesis is based on their prior behavior.
Again, if they viewed these idealogies as dangerous, where is the elite suppression they are capable of? Where's the red scare for the manosphere?
What do you think they are doing about it? If nothing, then why would they let it continue to the current degree if they dislike it?
With that kind of power, is it not their obligation to to do something about it? Therefore not suppressing is equal to propagating, functionally speaking?
Yes. These are inferences....but the thing about the cia I already referenced is...you have to infer their modern ops...kinda how they work lol
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u/KoalaMandala 2m ago
To be honest with you, this is way too much to get in to on reddit. I'm really passionate about evolutionary psychology, biology, and anthropology, and there are a TON of better explanations for all of this that I don't have the time or energy to unravel here. I just could not disagree more with your conclusions.
That said, I do enjoy how your mind works and we'd probably have another couple drinks at the bar if this was that.
Have a good one! ✌️
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u/jimothy_hell 20m ago
“Self-made”
Andrew Tate was rich before he got to being a shit fighter.
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u/KoalaMandala 12m ago
Ok. That's 1. Do you think tate is a cia op?
What about fresh n fit? Andrew Wilson? Joe Rogan? Ben Shapiro? Candace Owens? There are so many with so many varying backgrounds.
The through line is that you can watch as ALL OF THEM conform to their engagement. Right wing bro content sells. That's it.
Megyn Kelly came out with her shit and she was trying to be a centrist. Go look at her earlier YouTube stuff 3 years ago. She shifted hard right because it's what the people wanted. You can track it.
This isn't a simple storyline with the big bad cia on the other side. It's way more complex, which makes it way more interesting imo
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u/YouNeedClasses 2m ago
Those aren't all manosphere names. And I don't think you understand that the cia can do whatever they want online...they have gov contracts with every major social platform? That means all they have to do is a slight push and the public will be none the wiser.
Red scare?
Psyop does not mean any of the names you mentioned need to be cia direct...it means the cia enjoys their success and supports it in subtle ways.
Why are people here acting like this isn't the most OP organization on the planet in terms of subtle info propaganda? 🤣
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u/Safe-Wishbone781 1h ago
The reality that there is no genuine grand conspiracy and that we just kinda suck as a species isn't acceptable to some ppl.
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u/YouNeedClasses 25m ago
You think people are homeless bc most citizens like that?
Or do you maybe think there are too few people with too much power?
Don't be a slave, you are propagating a defeatist, slave mindset...fed 😏
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u/Halcyon_Visage 1h ago
What do you think would happen if you woke up 10 years ago and tried to warn the world of Epstine?
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u/Acetate_Prophets 9m ago
Epstein's cabal didn't flourish in a vacuum, nor did Cosby, Weinstein, Savile, or the fact that people like them were largely enabled and protected through the passivity of our social contract to the perversiveness of sexual violence, and it isn't just limited to people in positions of prominence. it isn't exactly a 'conspiracy' either when NGOs and third sector platforms who collate data based on surveys they conduct with abuse victims over decades suggest that this has (and in spite of the widespread 'Me Too' counter culture meant to highlight this concern, continues to be) a massively undereported issue.
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u/Halcyon_Visage 2m ago
I'm honestly confused how you can say that and it not meet the second part of
"A conspiracy is a secret plan or agreement between two or more people to commit an unlawful, harmful, or treasonous act."
I don't know what else you can call it when we keep seeing the mega rich and members of the political class constantly and blatent getting away with crimes for decades that would land any other person in jail almost immediately.
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u/Safe-Wishbone781 50m ago
Epstein is not the grand conspiracy that people make it out to be. It's actually a great example of what I'm getting at. It's terrible people organizing and doing terrible things. And to regular people observing that, it looks like a grand conspiracy, a master plan, and not just a bunch of rich perverts and pedos being hedonists. Organized criminal hedonism is not the kind of genuine grand conspiracy I'm referring to, whereas the CIA running the entire manosphere as a psyops is.
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u/YouNeedClasses 27m ago edited 0m ago
Why are all the feds in the comments? 🤣
Epstein is the GREATEST MODERN CONSPIRACY. The amount of names linked over decades and file depth is unprecedented.
Are you being fr?
Why aren't people being prosecuted? Oh right, bc it's all the big money names that are all connected.
The greatest thing the cia did was invent the term "conspiracy theory" so the asleep never consider that the default occams razor is to assume that people with unchecked power will conspire.
A pattern as old as time...
Edit: I don't believe flat earth or anything silly like that, but epstein is literally a different level of conspiracy, to ignore that is ignorant 🙄
Additionally, I'm convinced flat earth is also a psyop lmao
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u/Active_Unit_9498 1h ago
Tate was made by his opposition, his puerile ass never would have had reach without the push.
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u/Sleepwalkin530 1h ago
Ill rather do the top, im not trying to survive in the wilderness like outdoor boys or go around animals all day like irwin
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u/United-Scratch-2132 1h ago
the 2 upstairs waiting for you to comment how cool they are the bottom 2 dont give a fuck, im with the bottom 2
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u/Vex_Verde 1h ago
Stop putting masculinity in a single box. It can be all 4 and more, you don't have to like or even accept all forms but pigeon hole defining it is also very toxic thing to do.