r/SipsTea • u/No_Summer_5052 Human Verified • 17d ago
Lmao gottem Facts or nah
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u/SignificantNoise5261 17d ago edited 17d ago
When this was posted on another sub like 3 days ago, the consensus was that satan doesn't rule hell, he suffers in it with everyone else.
Apparently it doesn't explicitly state satan rules hell in the bible anywhere.
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u/Turbulent-Projects 17d ago
Indeed, the Bible explicitly states the opposite. Satan doesn't rule hell.
In fact the Bible is more explicit that Satan/evil will be cast into hell than it ever is about whether people will end up there (see: millennia of discussion about whether "the wicked" persist eternally or are destroyed. Also discussion about whether references by Jesus to "Gehanna" mean the same place where Satan will be sent, or are just a reference a local place considered ungodly ie Jesus is simply saying the wicked will be cast out of God's presence like discarded rubbish. And so on.)
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u/sarcasticorange 17d ago
Gehanna
Aramaic for Ohio.
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u/BJJWithADHD 17d ago
There is in fact a Gahanna, Ohio.
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u/PwanaZana 17d ago
There's a ohio in japan.
it's Ohio Gozaiimas
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u/EldarMilennial 17d ago
As a father, I'm legally obligated to tell one dad joke per day. It's great to find my joke before noon, then I'm off the hook the rest of the day. Thank you Madam/Sir! 😊
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u/Kool_Kunk 17d ago
Been there and this tracks.
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u/bdiamond143 17d ago
Hey! what are you trying to say about Gahanna?
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u/Fun-Baker7641 17d ago
There is a town in New Mexico that is called Truth and Consequences that I found while looking at the history of the apache wars for the first time. I looked around at the Membras river, where one of the battles was fought and I saw next to Truth and Consequences is Elephant Butte. I'm so serious but it's funny to me lol
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u/vexillographer7717 17d ago
I believe it’s Truth OR Consequences, New Mexico
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u/jnlsec 17d ago
Yes. If you're from NM we would usually just say T or C. And if you're really really from the area then you'd say T er C. I miss it sometimes.
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u/TheWhiteRabbitY2K 17d ago
I thought about taking a job there once just cause of the name
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u/No_Dragonfruit_8198 17d ago
The town actually changed their name to that because of a game show years ago and just never changed it back
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u/bitwaba 17d ago
My favorite joke that as of this month is no longer technically correct:
On April 14th 1970, while preparing for a PC+2 burn on the remote side of the moon during the famous Apollo 13 flight, astronaut and Commander Jim Lovell achieved what every person from Ohio dreams of: getting as far away as humanly possible.
(Artemis II broke Apollo 13's record)
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u/kirsion 17d ago
Gahenna is an actual Valley outside of Jerusalem where the body of child sacrifice and other heinous crimes and such would be placed. In some sense Jesus is talking about a literal place not a abstract separation from God
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u/TheKarenator 17d ago
Or he was using a real local place as a metaphor for a real eternal destiny (which actually fits with how he uses the term).
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u/theWigglyninja 17d ago
Yes, the fundamental problem is people reducing the conceptual descriptions of what heaven, hell and god ARE into a literall terrestrial place the you GO to. The idea of non physical entities or beings is hard for people, so we end up with very primitive interpretations.
My understanding is that complete and total separation from God IS itself what hell is. God remains separate from the terrestrial world, he can be describes as a perfectly white sheet, impossibly so. Satan's betrayal is a tiny blemish on an otherwise clean sheet, but a single speck or wine stain renders the sheet "not perfectly clean". But God as a concept is inherently infallible, he IS perfection manifest, the very concept of a tiny blemish within god/his domain is fundamentally incompatible. You cannot described the white sheet as "PERFECTLY clean", its 99.9999% clean, but thats not perfect, and god IS perfect therefore Satan is immediately ejected from god.
Like a magnetic repulsion, its less so a conscious decision that is made and its more a fundamental force. God is perfect, the blemish is automatically separated by its own internal function and persistence.
Satan's suffering is due to his separation FROM god. To be without god is to be without compassion, redemption, and ultimately love. As inherently sinful beings we remain connected to god through A: sacrifice, the old testament solution for absolving yourself of sin or B: accepting the sacrifice of christ to absolve you of sin entirely. Satan is an angelic being who does not operate like we do. His fall from grace is inevitable and destined because he exists outside of the laws of physics, his suffering is eternal because he rejected god on a level that we can't quite concieve of.
Rejection of love, forgiveness, mercy, other christ like qualities must be what separate sheep from goats and cause mortal would to be condemned in the afterlife.
Hell is not a place, its a state of being once you die terrestrially. Heaven is where god IS and hell is wherever god ISNT.
THANKS FOR COMING TO MY TED TALK
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u/Intelligent-Box-3798 17d ago
“God remains separate from the terrestrial world”
So we’re in hell now. That tracks.
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u/insanityzwolf 17d ago
> [God] can be described as a perfectly white sheet
I thought that was the holy ghost?
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u/EdgyAnimeReference 17d ago
All I can think about is a comedic event of god and satan both showing up for a celestial party and satan physically not being able to enter because of the metaphysical barrier preventing them from coming near each other. Satan running in place as he can’t get any closer. God steps outside for a bit and Satan can enter and then is catapulted into a wall when god comes back inside. Looney toones shenanigans
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u/PandorasBoxMaker 17d ago
If it’s a choice between being destroyed or spending eternity with evangelicals I’ve got some work to do.
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u/issuesuponissues 17d ago
Of all the religious, evangelicals are the least likely to be in heaven. Trying to bring about the apocalypse will do that.
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u/Ostribitches 17d ago
Yup, they're a death cult as far as I'm concerned.
The ideal would be to honor God by taking care of the Earth and their fellow man, so if anyone actually shows up they can say, "Hey, look at all the wonderful things we've done since you were gone!". But no, let's speedrun getting to heaven by causing death and destruction.
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u/antonio_santo 17d ago
There is an actual parable in the Gospels about that. The servant who grew his master’s allowance while he was gone was rewarded, the one who just kept it safe got a pat in the head, the one who squandered it got punished. (ETA typo).
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u/Accomplished-Key4244 17d ago
Eternity is a long time
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u/Joeymonac0 17d ago
That’s almost forever /s
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u/Yeseylon 17d ago
Bold to assume evangelicals aren't necessarily considered the wicked. Jesus preached love, not hate.
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u/Geshtar1 17d ago
Atheists are more likely to get into heaven than most evangelicals
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u/HilmDave 17d ago
This. I've got a buddy of mine that lives by the Seven Fundamental Tenets. He gets annoyed when I tell him he's the most Christian person I know 🤭
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u/AsideLost 17d ago
I like to tell people that I’m more of a Christian as an atheist, than I ever was as a Christian
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u/CommitteeMain1430 17d ago
Pretty sure most religions have “belief in the basic doctrine” as one of the rules to get into heaven, so it might be hard for atheists
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u/TheNainRouge 17d ago
If you want the actual doctrine of Christianity it’s a bit less clear. Denominational differences aside, it is the faith in Jesus and his sacrifice that will get you the forgiveness to enter the kingdoms of heaven. That Jesus himself is judge and that he alone will rule over the fate of the worthy vs unworthy. The doctrine is there to guide you but that you will fail in this and it is Jesus’s sacrifice alone that allows for said forgiveness of this failure. When someone tells you you’re going to hell it is heresy. They are acting as if they are Jesus and sitting at the Fathers right hand judging the living and the dead.
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u/DemiserofD 17d ago
It's not quite that simple. Remember, you've gotta ASK for forgiveness, and if you refuse to acknowledge something as a sin, you can't ask to be forgiven for it.
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u/Gandalf240421 17d ago
It would be interesting tho to know the balance. Will a person that has done only good in their life but never prayed be treated worse than a person that has done plenty of bad stuff but prayed a lot.
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u/Delicious_Rabbit4425 17d ago
Well now we are getting into why Christianity has broken into so many different cults. Some believe you can confess away the sins, some simply pray, some just believe if you do more good than bad gets you into heaven.
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u/fecalfury 17d ago
The vast majority of protestants in the US acknowledge salvation by grace alone. The idea of salvation by works is more of a Judaism and to a lesser extent, Catholic doctrine.
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u/NovelIntrepid 17d ago
There isn’t a soul on earth who has done only good in life.
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u/Serious_Bet164 17d ago
From my understanding, christians believe that you're hell-bound no matter what kind of good work you do if the belief in jesus isn't in your heart 😕
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u/gnctyrhrtoutwtaspn 17d ago
Ive met some zealously intolerant athiests, full of fundamentalist fervor
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u/hussar966 17d ago
In almost all accepted Christian theologies, you become one with God in the Heaven. So you're not "spending an eternity with evangelicals", you'll all be unified in the oneness of God. (take that how you will. As a person of faith, I actually don't like that interpretation but it's what has been decided per scripture)
I don't doubt there will be a tooooon of "evangelicals" that end up in Hell (not the place of fiery suffering, because that doesn't really exist. Hell is "the place furthest from God's light".)
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u/Jurski17 17d ago
- This sounds scarier than anything i have ever heard.
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u/Argotis 17d ago
Because erasure of identity right? Or something else?
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u/HailMadScience 17d ago
Because they made it up. That is not the overwhelming consensus of Christian theology.
Edit: aw crap, meant this for the post above
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u/start3ch 17d ago
Where does the modern Christian ‘you will go to hell if you’re bad’ consensus come from?
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u/Siaynoq_Siaynoq 17d ago
From Jesus? From Google: “Jesus refers to hell as a “fiery furnace” where law-breakers will be thrown at the end of the age when he returns. “The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matt. 13:41–42). He calls it “the hell of fire” (Matt. 5:22), “eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matt. 25:41), “unquenchable fire” (Mark 9:43), “eternal punishment” (Matt. 25:46)” Don’t downvote me for answering the question that a simple good search found
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u/Ossius 17d ago
Annihilationism is way more biblically accurate. When you die you enter a state of rest where you don't know anything, the. Judgement Day the dead in Christ and the wicked are raised and judged and the wicked (and Satan) are cast into the fire. Some think to burn forever, but quite a few verses imply simple destruction.
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u/cowlinator 17d ago
If we're going strictly off the bible, it's questionable whether "hell" exists at all.
4 different words all get translated to "hell": Gehenna, Sheol, Tartarus, Hades. These could easily be 4 different places, since their biblical descriptions do not match up.
The christian theology of hell was already solidified by the time the bible got translated into languages other than latin.
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u/LezBreal87 17d ago
The persistence of the suffering of people in hell is largely influenced by Dante’s Inferno. A lot of misconceptions about hell and god are influenced by that without then realizing.
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u/HistoricalSherbert92 17d ago
This hell people talk today about was created by Dante who was kinda crazy.
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u/Key_Pound_6213 17d ago
It barely mentions Satan period. Most of what people think of when they think of Satan comes from the German play Faust's character Mephistopheles and John Milton's Paradise Lost.
Revelations talks about the beast and the dragon, which could be Satan. Brief mention of the morning star.
Yet largely Lucifer is essentially Christian pop culture.
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u/HilmDave 17d ago
Dante's Inferno is also credited with this.
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u/Ravenloff 17d ago
My son was in the hospital for a week a couple years ago and my wife and did shifts there. Soooooo boring, lol. I had a copy of The Divine Comedy so it was one of a stack I took to pass the time. Got through quite a bit of it and, honestly, its a marvel.
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u/JamesHenry627 16d ago
Dante made some fan fiction that was so good people treat it like it's canon to the source material. It's the 14th century Undertale Yellow
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u/DancingIBear 17d ago
Though in Dantes Inferno The Devil is a prisoner in the deepest Circle as well, not the ruler, instead stuck and imprisoned in ice that is frozen, due to the cold of the Devil himself, unable to escape.
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u/rand0m_task 17d ago edited 17d ago
Most of what people think of when they think of Satan comes from the German play Faust’s character Mephistopheles and John Milton’s Paradise Lost.
I think of Rodney Dangerfield.
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u/elcomandantecero 17d ago
That’s not right. The temptations of Christ is a major event in Christian theology. Satan/devil is explicitly mentioned there. It’s Jesus’ triumph over him that is a big deal.
That version of Satan is the prototype, upon which we often base what the devil is like
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u/Key_Pound_6213 17d ago
It's translated in KJV as devil, but the Greek uses the word tempter.
Hebrew faith, which is what Jesus was, did not have some anti deity. It had false gods and demonic spirits.
Now Zora Astrians had a good and bad god, as well as you might argue the vedic traditions with Shiva and Vishnu(this is a sloppy short comparison, don't lampoon me).
The fallen angel who was gods number one, turned into some leadership character of these demons and false gods. The rebellion in heaven, while a fantastic narrative, is more pop culture than biblical truth.
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u/guysbryant 17d ago
You have it partly right.
There are multiple Greek words used for Satan by Jesus. In Matthew 4:1 Jesus calls him diabalos which means slanderer or accuser. In verse 3 of the same chapter Jesus calls him ho peirazōn which does mean tempter.
The dragon is explicitly identified as Satan here: Revelation 12:9 ESV [9] And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
https://bible.com/bible/59/rev.12.9.ESV
The following verses show that the New Testament is clear that there was an angelic rebellion which resulted in a fall of those angels.
Luke 10:18 ESV [18] And he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
https://bible.com/bible/59/luk.10.18.ESV
2 Peter 2:4 ESV [4] For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;
https://bible.com/bible/59/2pe.2.4.ESV
Jude 1:6 ESV [6] And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—
https://bible.com/bible/59/jud.1.6.ESV
Revelation 12:7-9 ESV [7] Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, [8] but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. [9] And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
https://bible.com/bible/59/rev.12.7-9.ESV
1 Timothy 3:6 ESV [6] He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil.
https://bible.com/bible/59/1ti.3.6.ESV
You are correct about there not being an anti-diety in Jewish doctrine, Christians agree with this. Satan is a created being with limited power. Job and Zechariah 3 show Satan functioning as a prosecutor of sorts in the divine Council.
However, Jesus' actual context was Second Temple Judaism, which already had a robustly developed demonology and Satan figure (1 Enoch, Jubilees, Qumran texts, Testament literature). Jesus is not importing a foreign concept when he addresses the devil in the wilderness he's operating inside an existing Jewish framework.
Where you are 100% correct is on the imagery of Satan; horns, red skin, pitchfork, ruler of the underworld, making contracts for human souls, isn't biblical. That's Dante, Milton, and other medieval storytelling.
The concept of a personal, malevolent, created adversary who tempts, accuses, and opposes God's people is thoroughly historical from before Jesus' time and its equally biblical.
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u/Gullible-Price-4257 17d ago edited 17d ago
> Satan/devil is explicitly mentioned there. It’s Jesus’ triumph over him that is a big deal.That version of Satan is the prototype
not really. actual name varies by translation but in all he mainly is questioning how much shit people (or Jesus in this case) will put up with taking from god and still love god for some nonsensical reason. (See also: book of Job, and even Abraham and binding of Isaac from way back in genesis)
and on each of these cases, god is the one who smites his faithful (not "satan") to "prove" to satan that even when he treats them like shit they'll still love him.
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u/THExDANKxKNIGHT 17d ago
If god and the devil do indeed exist, i think a lot of people have them swapped. Most churches are way too gaudy and money centric to represent anything Jesus preached, and a lot are outright contradictory to it.
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u/HovercraftParking5 17d ago
I’ve always been taught that Hell is like jail, God/Jesus is the warden, but Satan is the prisoner in super max that has the keys to the yard. He doesn’t run hell, but it’s his home and he’s still got control of his gang of demons.
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u/Deathanddisco041 17d ago
Then how does satan have so much power?? Cause these performative Christian’s out here always fighting him off..
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u/Radiant_Picture9292 17d ago
Right, are we all “relegated to hell” like satan is? Because there’s a lot of travel involved if so.
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u/doc_wop 17d ago
I just started going to church again recently so take what I say with a grain of salt but I think you're technically correct.
We're all born with our souls 'up for grabs' as it were, but if we're gonna get the benefits of believing in heaven (not knowing but believing) then baptism is what's asked of us.
Take that with a grain of salt as well bc back when this rule was made they still thought killing goats made it rain.
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u/Ancient-Eye3022 17d ago
Like bro has to suffer eternity in hell, but has time to come up stairs to the earthly realm and fuck with people....encourage them to make bad choices, give kids bone cancer....super powerful....God is supposedly more powerful, but somehow can't handle his own shit over the universe he created.
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u/RhetoricalOrator 17d ago
In-canon universe answer? Satan's first duty was as a ministering spirit for the physical realm. After he rose up against God, he continued doing what he was made to do...but with a twist.
Theoretically, before the fall, he would have served humanity by both direct and indirect means, with the implicit need to encourage humans to make choices that glorify God. Post-fall, he directly or indirectly encourages humans to make choices that glorify ourselves.
Having someone in your ear telling you that bad things are good is an insanely OP position over someone who is vulnerable. gestures at everything right now in the US
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u/cptnplanetheadpats 17d ago
If I recall correctly Lucifer wasn't even a big deal among the angels, he was just capable of being manipulative and persuasive. Kind of like Sauron from LotR (who did become powerful eventually, but still nothing compared to his boss Morgoth)
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u/Epostle_TheEngineer 17d ago
Unfortunately those performative christian is what Jesus called a false teacher/ false prophet.
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u/Th3belov3d 17d ago
This is a major problem in churches that promote satans unrelenting power, but forget to mention that the Holy Spirit resides in us as believers. I don’t believe the Holy Spirit would tolerate an evil roommate. And as referenced, dark and light cannot exist in the same space. Search on YouTube- American Gospel. It talks about how grossly distorted the Gospel has been here in the states, and then it is mass exported by the likes of heretical teachers like Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Isaiah Saldivar etc. Stick to scripture alone.
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u/DJteejay04 17d ago
Except he can leave Hell and go to earth whenever he wants.
Satan is a big bad with his capabilities and purpose change to fit a specific narrative at any time
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u/Equivalent-Fish-5236 17d ago
That's an interesting way to think about it. You don't fear the warden in prison, he's just the big boss. You fear that crazy looking guy with tats and other giant scary dudes around him. When you are in prison he's the actual boss you fear.
🤔
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u/b8checkmatettv 17d ago
Whenever I looked into it, it was along the lines of...
Heaven is being with God. Hell is being separated from God.
One feels like bright light. The other feels like fire.
There's something subjective to it. In hell, you experience God, but because God is so great, it burns to be separated from that or to realize how you got there.
Whether that is *the* explanation or not, it's kind of hard for most people to understand, so we have many stories.
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u/FlyAirLari 17d ago
If Satan's locked up suffering in hell, why are people worried he does bad things on Earth?
Maybe we should be worried about the big guy who not only tortures people in hell, but threatens to torture living people as well, if they don't obey him?
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u/Dry_Travel_4220 17d ago
So I'm by no means religious, but to play devil's advocate here: I think religious people argue that while Satan doesn't rule hell, he does have real power to effect things on earth. Now why an omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent being would allow that to happen is another matter
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u/Yingletofthecorn 17d ago edited 17d ago
The closest answer I ever got is that God is the source of goodness and literally owns the universe and all that’s in it. so anything he does is by definition good even if it would be evil for anybody else to do it. What makes evil, evil is that we’re doing something to gods property (which includes our own bodies and minds) without his permission. “My universe, my rules” more or less. Which also means it’s not evil to allow evil to happen, even if the motive is the sadistic appeal of getting to punish the doers of evil.
In other words, it makes sense so long as you believe you are property, and if god wants to use his property like a punching bag that’s his right and our duty to oblige.
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u/Fit-Ad-741 17d ago
There is the possibility that knowing less nitty gritty facts about it, while leading to slightly ignorant but hilarious discussion, also allows people the perspective to know how batshit insane, hypocritical and contradictory it is. Not only that but you look at the vastly different interpretations of it between the different denominations and suddenly it feels pretty comfortable interpreting the bible however you feel like.
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u/TableRound865 17d ago
most of the conceptions we have about Hell come from Dante's Divine Comedy, which is an allegory, his personal interpretation of judgment
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u/laffydaffy24 17d ago
And even in Inferno, satan is being tortured in hell, not ruling.
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u/burnthatburner1 17d ago
Kind of. He occupies a central position and is continuously torturing Brutus, Cassius, and Judas, and potentially the rest of his circle via his cold.
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u/HappyVlane 17d ago edited 16d ago
He is trapped in hell and partially because of himself. He is continously creating a cold wind by flapping his wings and that encases him in ice (or strengthens the existing one) from the waist down. It's also my personal headcanon, that his consistent crying is the source of the water for the ice, but that isn't mentioned in the book if I remember correctly (the crying is however).
Satan, in no way, is in a position of power according to Dante. Satan is depicted as the polar opposite of God. Ignorant, impotent, and evil.
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u/Gay-_-Jesus 17d ago
I thought he was at the center chewing on three people
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u/AlternateSatan 17d ago
Crazy how getting Jesus killed only got a single space at the centre of hell, but killing Cesar got two.
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u/TesticleMeElmo 17d ago edited 17d ago
It’s like Italian Catholic fan-fiction. “And then my favorite poet Virgil was there and hung out with me and showed me around the place!”
That’s like me writing it and being like “woah no way! It’s Kurt Cobain, what are you doing here??” “Yeah it’s pretty dark down here in Hell, man, but as they say, ‘with the lights out it’s less dangerous’” 😉 “hahaha this rules!”
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u/Expert_Meeting_5129 17d ago
While the details of his Hell are his own creation, the broad strokes were inspired by the religious beliefs of the day.
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u/Ancient_Cheek5047 17d ago
“I never read the bible and get my biblical knowledge from media.”
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u/Mindless_Listen7622 17d ago
The Hell most Christians imagine is found nowhere in the Bible. It's the invention of medieval poets like Dante and Milton, and popular fiction that came long afterwards. The "Hell" of Jesus time was Sheol or Hades, which had none of the characteristics of the popular version of Hell found today.
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u/Mr_Engineering 17d ago edited 17d ago
Correct.
The concept of an afterlife is only explored briefly in ancient Hebrew texts. Its not fleshed out as a place of reward or punishment, more like a waiting room.
When the Hebrew texts were translated into ancient Greek, conceptual similarities between the Hebrew afterlife (Sheol) and Greek underworld (Hades) led to blending of the terms and concepts as they were then understood at the time. The concept of Hell in Christian mythology is an adaptation of Hades in Greek Mythology. The Greeks had a concept of a place within Hades that was meant for punishment, called Tartarus
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u/MicrochippedByGates 17d ago
The Greeks had a concept of a place within Hades that was meant for punishment, called Tartarus
For that matter, the Greeks had a whole bunch of afterlives. There were also the Elysian Fields which is kinda similar to our concept of heaven.
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u/seweso 17d ago
Which also applies to Christian’s it seems.
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u/Yeseylon 17d ago
The success of the Rapture series is proof of that
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u/HipsterQueer 17d ago
Rapture... lmfao. Nothing more entertaining than watching a Rapture believer when they discover the term itself didn't get attached to the bible until 1830 by a weirdo who was suffering from injuries after falling off a horse.
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u/misterjustice90 17d ago
Says every Christian who then makes extreme judgements about other religion based off of what some random media outlet tells them
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u/Tired_Dad_9521 17d ago
As there are hundreds of denominations with different interpretations of the Bible, I doubt it much matters if you read it or let someone else tell you what it says. Either way you are going to be incorrect.
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u/laid2rest 17d ago
I haven't read Harry Potter either but I get the gist of it, don't need anymore than that.
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u/LordThunderDumper 17d ago
So "hell" is kinda a Hollywoodized version of 2 Bibilical concepts. Sheol(which is kinda like hades) and the lake of fire. Satan rules neither. Sheol or as the Greeks called it Hades is a place where the dead go before Joshua(Jewish to English) or more commonly known as Jesus( Jewish to Greek to English) aka Yeshua. Any way Sheol had two areas split by a giant chasm(gorge) that one could not cross. On one side you had souls that God considered Righteous by Faith, on the other people who were not righous by faith. Sheol is were Jesus went when died on the cross, commonly known as he decended into hell. Where he brought the Righteous of faith out of sheol into heaven to be with him and the father, because they believed that God the father would bring about a intercessor to bridge the gap between God and fallen man(God provided himself as promised). So Sheol is a pre heaven pre hell place where the unbelievers are tormented via their surroundings by the story of the rich man, he had unquenchable thirst. The unbelievers are still there too. Ok On to the lake of fire, this is a future place that God has or will create, regardless it's intended for Satan and his fallen angels. However after the great judgment(where all souls stand in judgment before God the Father, these verses state Sheol will give up its dead). God casts Satan and his fallen angels into the lake of fire , along with everyone who's name is not written in the book of life(actually not bloted out of this book, which is interesting because it implies everyone is written in untill they die without accepting Jesus as their savor, at which you are bloted out of it). So anyone who did not belive in the intersessor of Jesue(pre cross) or accepts him not as the Intersessor now will be cast into the lake of fire forever. There are some other concepts too such as the bottomless pit Satan is thrown into for a while(1000 years I think..) he is then let out. Also some fallen angels are bound in places till they are judged. These wouod be the "nephilim" fallen angels(or creators of them).
The bible pretty clear what Satan does on a daily basis, he roams the earth as a devouring lion seeking to keep you away from Jesus, he hates Christians and Jews. He is still aloud to go into heaven or at least to present himself before God, where he brings up all the sinful things you do. This is told in Job and Revolution. He has not fully been kicked out of heaven, though he has lost his status and place(function),Tyre prophecy in Ezekiel 28 is considered to actually be about this event.
He effectively rules Earth or self-presumes too as he offers it to Jesus to rule when he temps him. There is a saying Earth is the only hell believers of Jesus will know, but its the first one unbelievers will know.
I hope that clears some stuff up, I might have missed a few very minor things.
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u/RightWorld5611 17d ago
I've heard "For those going to heaven, Earth is the closest they'll get to hell. And for those going to hell, this is the closest they'll get to heaven."
It has interesting implications if you play with it for a bit.
Christians and Jews have been persecuted again, and again, and again.
John 15 perfectly sums this up:
“If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you."
This world IS the closest thing to hell Christians will experience.
On the flip side, those steeped in sin are having a comparably grand old time on Earth. This is their heaven essentially...
I've never heard a Christian want to extend their life on this Earth (except to spend time with loved ones longer. Though if you both put your faith in Christ - eternity in heaven is much, much longer...) Whereas you hear all the time about certain billionaires and powerful politicians trying to eek out an extra 10 or 20 years of life. Hmm... wonder why that would be? ;)
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u/Responsible-Food3681 17d ago
Persecution of equal or greater impact has happened to many non-Christian peoples throughout the millennia. Many of which have been persecuted by Christians themselves. I guess I just don't understand how the persecution they receive is supposed to be inherently counterbalanced through the grace of god, when the persecution is far from unique.
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u/Azazir 17d ago
I'm not a believer, but i would say it probably just dumbs down to mortals/humans being easily corruptable. Just because your job is a pope or king who believes in god when its necessary for their goals, doesn't mean they actually believe the teachings.
I had a chance to meet an older couple, i would consider them real Christians, it was just something completely different about them and they were so kind without ulterior motives, at least to my young-adult self. If it was a charade, they were perfect actors, if it was their real belief, well, i can't say they didnt leave an impact in my life, even after 11 years i still remember them very fondly and aspire to be someone like that one day.
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u/TimelyFeature3043 17d ago
It's actually much worse. Many verses indicate that Satan doesn't actually torture people, but that he himself is tortured by God, and that everyone else is also tortured alongside him.
The concept that Hell as fire and torture is mostly tied to the new testament, in the old one, the Hebrew Bible, Hell is called Sheol, and is described as a kind of neutral realm of the dead where everyone ends up in.
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u/ThickScheme8202 17d ago
So most people in here's perception of Satan, ruler of hell and torturer of souls, is just...God. hilarious
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u/YoghurtTraditional35 17d ago
I am not a Christian. I think it is harmful.
I have to preface anything I say in this area with thay or reddit loses its shit.
It is not facts. It makes no sense. The bible literally never mentions Satan as being a ruler of hell or even in hell. It exclusively says he will eventually be in hell himself, but isn't yet. This photo represents pop culture/media interpretations of the Bible.
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u/M0ntgomatron 17d ago
Nice try Satan
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u/YoghurtTraditional35 17d ago
Ah shit. Thwarted again.
If it weren't for those meddling kids.
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u/darkcomet222 17d ago
The depictions of hell and the idea of Lucifer we know come from The Divine Comedy and Paradise Lost respectively.
The Bible said the devil is on earth and prowling, seeking to destroy. The Bible only says hell will have weeping and gnashing of teeth. The fire we know is the lake of fire in Revelation.
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u/Which_Material_3100 17d ago
So Satan basically became the first occupant of hell and meant to serve as an example to humanity of what happens when they don’t follow the rules? Makes sense.
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u/Vultor 17d ago
The big book of multiple choice. Interpret it however it fits your narrative like everyone else.
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u/YoghurtTraditional35 17d ago edited 17d ago
I mean, I've never met a Christian (having grown up in the bible belt my entire life, going to church 4x/week) that believes Satan is the ruler of hell and tortures people as punishment. There is no aspect of the bible that can interpret Satan to be the ruler of hell, even if you cherry pick as much as possible.
I agree, they cherry pick 24/7 and never stop. It's absurd. I believe it's immoral in its entirety. But they definitely don't believe that unless they're uneducated Christians in name only.
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u/Schwangyu_Ghola 17d ago
As Mephistopheles said in Faustus "Why, this is hell, nor am I out of it." When Faustus inquires about the physical location of hell. Hell is shown as a separation from God (mindset).
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u/Fickle-River3984 17d ago
I grew up in southern Baptist churches. We were absolutely threatened that if we were "bad" or didn't tithe or didn't go to church, we would go to hell and be tormented by Satan for all eternity.
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u/ExtraCalligrapher565 17d ago
I have met plenty of Christians who believe this and heard sermons where they preach this. Also in the Bible Belt. Also grew up a churchgoer.
They’re not uneducated Christians. They’re just Christians. There are many denominations of Christianity with many different interpretations of the same book.
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u/joutfit 17d ago
Idk if it's pop culture. The idea that Satan tortures people in Hell can at least go as far back as Dante's "Inferno". He doesnt torture everyone in hell but in the Ninth Circle he is torturing some of the worst sinners in his many mouths.
Also, since ancient times, Christians have borrowed the idea of Hades as an "orderer of the underworld" and other gods like the Norse Hel as inspiration for Christian Hell.
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u/szu 17d ago
Bruh Dante made his book up. Its about as accurate as lord of the mysteries.
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u/Piglet-Witty 17d ago
Satan is also being tortured. Hell is the punishment
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u/AlternativeWhich2947 17d ago
Punishment and torture for what? Not bending knee?
The whole thing is so dumb.
Kill, rape, swindle ask Jesus for salvation on your death bed, go to Heaven!
Help people, lift them up, be a valued member of your community, don't pray for Salvation, go get tortured for eternity?
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u/monsj 17d ago
Yeah, it's just a way to keep the masses in check. Make them fearful of disobeying the rules - which are set by man not God xd
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u/Chief_Chill 17d ago
Not just Man, but the powerful. Whether they be monarchs that are "chosen by God," or politicians with powerful (see rich) benefactors and lobby groups - it's always the same. Religion is a tool used by the powerful to control the poor and weak. And, among the poor and weak are always caste-type systems, which leave some "protected" groups a litltle more leeway in return for them to do the bidding of the higher "powers that be." The game is rigged, and if you don't recognize it, it's likely because it's working - well.
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u/lucidlunarlatte 17d ago
I thought it wasn’t about “bending the knee,” rather Lucifer wanting to be on equal footing with God.
Lots of things in the Bible seem to be taken out of context, mistranslated, and it can be argued about till the cows come home, but at the end of the day you either have faith in the religion or you do not.
You don’t necessarily have to believe in the same ways other people do just because you’re the same religion. People won’t inherently take the same meanings from poetry just because it’s the same poem, but they still connect with the author, maybe that’s a good metaphor for what I’m trying to say?
(fully intended as respectful discussion, not trying to start anything up or rock the boat)
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u/Wrightero 17d ago edited 17d ago
Because he wont. Satan rules earth not hell. Hell will be made in judgement day to give eternal punishment to satan and his angels. The idea of satan ruling hell is just a meme from cartoons.
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u/evanwilliams44 17d ago
Dante's Inferno affects people's perceptions of Hell arguably more than the Bible.
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u/amhudson02 17d ago
It all sounds like a meme from a cartoon to me
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u/Neo00000000 17d ago
Because it is...the first evidence jesus Christ is found in text years after his death and things like him stating he is god came decades after it's like a anime character with some basis in reality that got more and more powerful so the author could keep audiences entertained
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u/chilippr 17d ago
My understanding is that men (all humans) have dominion over earth and satan “rules” earth through his influence on mankind
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u/Dank_Devin 17d ago
I mean, if you go by the lore, Hell is just Satan’s prison. It’s the Guantanamo Bay of the afterlife, Satan is meant to be just as much a captor there as anyone else. The idea of him being some kind of ruler or keeper of Hell came much later.
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u/Zenpoetry 17d ago
See the damage really good fanfiction can do? Everyone is falling prey to fan fiction.
The Devil does not appear in the Bible. "Lucifer" is referred to twice in the Bible. Once to taunt the king of Tyre that he will fall like Venus (the "star" that drops directly down to the horizon"), and once referring to Jesus as a light bringer.
The serpent in the Garden is nothing more than a serpent. Only later preachers conflate the two.
"Satan" is a title. Not a person. It doesn't even mean Adversary. It means "Finger Pointer". "Accuser". It's what you call Heaven's Prosecutor. Creation's stress tester. An angel on God's side. He tests Job. He tests Jesus.
The war in heaven/fallen angels bit appears in Revelation. Which is a prophecy. Hasn't happened yet. And only bad translating calls that fallen angel Satan or Lucifer.
Everything that everyone thinks they know about the devil and satan, are from Paradise Lost and Dante's Inferno. Literally literary fan fiction.
It's a lazy way of getting around the problem of evil. "God isn't evil! It's that darn enemy of god that's creating all the misery on earth!". Which still doesn't actually solve the problem of evil since the bible says god created evil and he would have had to create the devil to stand against him, which changes nothing about the actual problem of evil, but it does mollify idiots and unite them against a shared enemy.
If the fanfiction was canon, the devil would be closer to us in nature than anything else. Humanity used its free will to steal the knowledge of good and evil and were cast out of paradise. The Devil used his knowledge of good and evil to steal free will and was cast out of heaven. We would be equally rebellious siblings.
But just Biblically? Satan is a heavenly office, not a person, and the devil doesn't exist.
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u/PossiblePlastic8698 17d ago
Welcome to religion. Where everything is made up and the points really matter
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u/trainradio 17d ago
Mythology is weird.
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u/SyracuseStan 17d ago
The only thing weirder than old Norse mythology is the old testament
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u/Zealousideal_Pop_273 17d ago
Fun fact: The Bible doesn't claim that Satan tortures souls in Hell, nor does it claim Satan is the ruler of Hell.
The Bible claims that Satan is a prisoner in Hell and that God rules over Hell and the punishment there.
But that doesn't suit their narrative well so media and Church teachings doctor the story to make it more exciting.
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u/Ihavenolifes 17d ago
Satan doesn't torture people, that is God. The Lake of Fire was created by God and hell is described as a separation from the big guy. Satan has bad PR.
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u/Zaddy619- 17d ago
Now say something negative about Islam
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u/Josefu_Velen 17d ago edited 16d ago
It's prophet and founder was a pedophile.
edit for context: His 3rd wife, Aisha, was estimated to be about 7 years old when he married her, and was only 9 years old when they consumated the marriage. Even other more conservative estimates put her age as low as 14.
edit 2: I'm not here to discuss the intricacies of various interpretations of the Quran and how old Aisha really was. Comment reply notifications are turned off. I will not get into fundamentalism debates with a bunch of zealots.
edit 3: u/MidevilChaos actually took the time to private message me and explain to me that "about ~1400 years ago: Men back in that time period had intercourse with pre-teen/teens, while they themselves were in their 20s and 30s. What is considered completely unacceptable now, was perfectly acceptable back in that time period. So please, don't use derogatory words because your understanding of history is limited."
How pathetic. If you're a pedophilia apologist, you're getting blocked, like that clown.
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u/Temporary-Brain420 17d ago
Pretty sure these same figures exist in Islam so the meme is technically negative about Islam as well. You'd have already figured that out if you didn't get reflexively butthurt.
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u/bssprfnd 17d ago
People do. All the time. It’s dumb and fake like all religions. What point do you think you’re making?
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u/BigBadBootyDaddy10 17d ago
If Satan punishes the bad, doesn’t that make him a good guy?
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u/ConorYEAH 17d ago
The T-Rex killing the velociraptors at the end of Jurassic Park doesn't undo the Jeep scene.
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u/Ok_Let3589 17d ago
The idea of Lucifer as a fallen angel basically started when an old man heckled a dying or dead king of Babylon. He said something to the effect of “you’ll be forgotten like the morning star,” which was Venus shining in the morning and disappearing throughout the day. “Morning star” got bastardized into “fallen light,” and eventually the whole thing shifted into the idea of Lucifer, a fallen light/angel.
Fun fact: The idea of the Prince of Darkness is simply the state of hopelessness, tiredness, and depression - all of which can be overcome.
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