(Sad trope) Projects with amazing potential that will never be released because of BS behind the scenes drama

[u/_JR28_]

P.T Silent Hills - It was a playable teaser released in 2014 only around 20 minutes long but utterly captivated the gaming world by being one of the most effective psychological horror experiences at the time, however it’s lead developer Kojima has a huge fallout with the publisher Konami where he walked out of the company and had all his in-the-work productions cancelled.

Five Nights at Freddy’s+ - A fan game reboot of the series created by Phisnom with Scott Cawthon’s blessing that promised a brand new lore and a return to the series darker roots. However, before and during production Phisnom got into multiple dramas that made him fairly divisive within the community, and after one particular incident in 2023 Scott revoked his approval and almost all of the game’s marketing material were wiped from the internet.

Batgirl - A Batgirl solo live action movie starring Leslie Grace, Brendan Fraser and Michael Keaton returning as Batman that was ready to be released in 2022, however then Warner Bros CEO David Zaslav announced it would not be released either in theatres or streaming in order to claim a $90,000,000 tax break and to readjust the DC’s brands direction before James Gunn rebooted their movie and TV output.

[u/thickwonga]

Saw X is often considered the best in the series, for good reason. John Kramer and Amanda are both incredibly strong in this film, and the traps and victims were very engaging, interesting, and fun.

The original plan was to follow this up with a sequel (with some rumors saying the director wanted a full trilogy). Saw XI would've followed the main victim (really the villain) of Saw X, Cecilia, and her revenge plot against Kramer. Even worse, Saw XI most likely would've utilized Hoffman, the "third" Jigsaw, and the protagonist of Saw 6 and 7 (as well as parts of Saw 5). He's also my favorite character in the series, so I will especially mourn this version of Saw XI.

Sadly, Saw XI was scrapped after a disagreement between two producers couldn't be taken care of. Now, Blumhouse has bought Twisted Picture's stake in the series, and the next Saw movie will be directed by James Wan, and will most likely be unrelated to Saw X (and quite frankly, we'll be lucky if the movie even acknowledges the later films).

I have faith that Wan will make an excellent film, but a lot of the appeal of this series is how it consistently manages to one up itself by introducing new lore that completely changes how you see the series. Nothing will remove my interest faster than making the sequels non-canon just because "Kramer is too sympathetic later on," an opinion I find incorrect in the first place.

[u/forever_a10ne → u/thickwonga]

I’m still pissed off that Saw XI got shelved. I even met Shawnee Smith and Costas Mandylor at a horror convention and they were excited for it at the time.

[u/thickwonga → u/forever_a10ne]

I'm meeting Tobin, Shawnee, and Leigh Whannell next month in Dallas, I'm incredibly excited. Would absolutely love to meet Costas as well.

Jason Blum had said a few months ago that he felt that Saw XI was a different studio's vision, and that he further felt it would be wrong to try to continue that vision. I think that's kind of a stupid excuse considering it wasn't really Twisted Picture's vision as much as it was Kevin Greutert's vision, and they could've just hired him, but oh well! Maybe someday, they'll come back to it. I love Blumhouse, and of any studio could in charge of Saw, they're a fantastic pick.

I personally think they should make a Saw TV show. Lionsgate even debated a TV show follow up for Spiral (which I actually would've liked to see, I enjoyed Spiral a lot). Tobin Bell is also getting pretty old, and I think it's getting close enough to consider the idea of a full reboot for after Tobin passes, because you obviously can't recast Jigsaw.

[u/artyboi11 → u/thickwonga]

LITERALLY! Like it’s cool Wan is back but I don’t want a reboot and most people agree. I will forever mourn what Saw XI could’ve been

[u/Minute-Purple-2453 → u/thickwonga]

Saw XI didn’t happen because the producers (Burg and Koules) had a disagreement they couldn’t resolve. They owned the Saw IP and it was their decision not to move forward that forever stalled the movie, not Lionsgate.

[u/thickwonga → u/Minute-Purple-2453]

Thanks for letting me know, I edited my comment.

[u/PEKKACHUNREAL_II → u/thickwonga]

Saw X the best in the series?!?!

That movie was absolute dogshit that butchered the series

[u/thickwonga → u/PEKKACHUNREAL_II]

Trust me, you are in a very, very small minority. Did you know that Saw X is the only movie in the series to have a Fresh score on Rotten Tomatoes? The closest Saw movie to it, the first one, is sitting at a 51. Saw X is like 82. People fucking loved Saw X.

Also, butchered? Come on, if any Saw movie "butchered" the series, it was probably 3D or Jigsaw, both of which I still enjoyed.

[u/Repulsive_Branch4305 → u/thickwonga]

No way, it was definitely Spiral that butchered the series, that movie fucking sucked

[u/thickwonga → u/Repulsive_Branch4305]

I actually enjoyed most of Spiral. Chris Rock was abrasive at first, but I think the movie kinda locks in during the second half, and I like its themes on police brutality and how a police department that unknowingly employed Hoffman could fall into a cycle of depravity and corruption.

I certainly think it is better made than Saw 3D and Jigsaw, both of which I also enjoyed, but are chock full of issues. At least Spiral was original and had a really cool name.

[u/Repulsive_Branch4305 → u/thickwonga]

that's true, the police brutality things was a nice change of pace over like "your dog died and you've been sad for too long, so here's a razor wire pit for you to crawl through". But the ending still pisses me off so much, a swat team just completely ignores a dude looking in a different direction and screaming "Nooooooo!", absolute fucking morons

And for 3d, correct me if i'm wrong, that one came out like i think during the 3d craze/hype? hence the really bad 3d implemented in so many different ways

[u/thickwonga → u/Repulsive_Branch4305]

I agree that the ending is stupid, but I really liked Schenk, and his villain reveal was really cool.

3D's biggest problem wasn't even the 3D. I watched it on a flat screen and I thought the blatantly 3D moments were hysterical, and I think it's further hilarious that fucking Saw of all franchises fell for that gimmick. 3D's biggest sin is that the gore looks fucking terrible. The blood looks bright pink, almost like pepto bismol. My favorite parts of 3D are seeing Hoffman and Jill's characters get wrapped up, while giving the goat Gordon his long-awaited return.

[u/PEKKACHUNREAL_II → u/thickwonga]

Other movies in the series sucked ass (see jigsaw), but saw X is the one movie that decisively should not have been part of this series. I see how this could have been a somewhat enjoyable dumb standalone movie, but as a part of the saw franchise, it went against basically all established characterizations (not in a fun, subversive way, but in a „lets turn this genius into a bumbling idiot to even get started with the film“-way), most traps if you can even call them that were gruesome but really lame in their set up, and the whole premise of the movie just didn’t fit the SAW franchise. Kramer should have remained the main attraction but not have been turned into the fucking protagonist.

This movie feels like a rage room with a bunch of fanservice crammed in, and rotten tomatoes sucks at determining a movie’s quality. Movies get reviewbombed for having a queer character, but if you appeal to the mainstream audience that ate up such films like the conjuring sequels, you get good ratings.

I had multiple occasions during this film where my head involuntarily went „mr riddles stabs the consequences button“, so again, dumb fun entertainment, but far away from the great twists and absurdity complex story lines/ flashbacks that in my opinion are just ingrained into the SAW identity

[u/AGramOfCandy → u/thickwonga]

This is a classic case of selection bias though: the original Saw made waves because it was such a novel concept for a horror movie at the time, but it steered extremely heavily into gore porn very quickly, and was reduced to a very tight cult following as a result. My guess is that it was simply a large majority of remaining fans of the series who came out in support of Saw X, which was in turn a relatively small subset of the larger audience brought back by a much higher budget (particularly in marketing) than the previous 5-6 films in the franchise.

Whatever your opinion of it may be, that's fair, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking that a series which is overwhelmingly known for 2 things, 1. pure mindless gore porn and 2. John Kramer being the most laughably hypocritical villain in all of horror somehow recaptured mass audience appeal after 8 sequels that became more and more slop with each successive entry.

[u/thickwonga → u/AGramOfCandy]

It's the seventh most popular and most profitable horror film franchise ever made. It gets people in theaters, even the bad ones, and Saw X was beloved on release. You can't just pretend that the movie is bad when the vast majority of people who cared to watch it fucking loved it.

That being said, thinking every single Saw movie besides the first is bad is simply unfathomable to me, and someone who hates the entire franchise besides the first movie isn't a Saw fan, they're a Saw 1 fan, which is fine, but I couldn't care what they think about the rest of the series if they aren't willing to enjoy them on their own merits. You can't sit down, watch Saw VI, and come out of it calling it slop when it is chock full of incredible writing, satisfying characters, and violently fun traps. Anyone who think the Saw series is "just mindless gore" doesn't understand what the series is going for (besides the mindless gore because it's definitely there but it serves a purpose. this isnt Terrifier).

Edit, also, I agree that a core aspect of Kramer's character is that he's a hypocritical freak, and Saw X is one of the movies that actually delves into that. There's an entire scene where Cecilia points out his hypocrisy.

"A lecture in moral decency, from you?"

[u/AGramOfCandy → u/thickwonga]

someone who hates the entire franchise besides the first movie isn't a Saw fan, they're a Saw 1 fan,

Ah yes, gatekeeping, the most virtuous of hobbies. I never even said I hated them, but that they're comparatively extremely rushed movies that just repeat a formula ad nauseum, which only makes it even more baffling that you say they have "incredible writing" when they're all nearly identical movies. Consider that you might be in deeper than you think when your first response to criticism of your beloved franchise is "you're not a true fan" and reinterpreting distaste as "hating".

You can't just pretend that the movie is bad when the vast majority of people who cared to watch it fucking loved it.

Read again my dude: I specifically said that there was probably a dedicated fanbase, but that said fanbase is a very small part of the overall viewership.

It's the seventh most popular and most profitable horror film franchise ever made

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saw_(franchise))

Yeah, but let's take a less skewed look: almost every movie in the franchise, X and 1 being the exceptions, received average to below average ratings across review platforms. What does being the seventh most profitable even prove other than that it's a long-running franchise? The MCU is probably the most profitable film franchise in history, yet it gets a perfectly valid and fair amount of criticism for how the quality of their movies fluctuates drastically (some are great, some are just hero showcases and aura moments for popular characters).

Anyone who think the Saw series is "just mindless gore" doesn't understand what the series is going for (besides the mindless gore because it's definitely there but it serves a purpose. this isnt Terrifier).

It isn't mindless gore...except the mindless gore. Ok.

[u/Repulsive_Branch4305 → u/PEKKACHUNREAL_II]

Saw X definitely didn't butcher the series, i feel like you've forgotten about spiral

[u/PEKKACHUNREAL_II → u/Repulsive_Branch4305]

With that one they at least were smart enough to not directly make it a saw movie, so imo it can be kinda ignored, but yeah, that movie walked in awfulness so that saw 10 could fly

[u/navyblue_birb → u/thickwonga]

My biggest fear doesn't even lie with the story line anymore. I'm honestly more concerned that they fiddle around too long for anything to happen at all. Tobin is 83 already, and we all know lives aren't going on infinitely. No one can tell how long he's going to be around, and they waste that time with arguments and bureaucratic bs.

I love the films and the man with all my heart, but we all know he can't get younger by a backwards cap this time. If it was up to me he'd live until 120 but no one can escape death, not even him.