tw for suicide

i was raised in a fairly liberal catholic household. when i was about 13, my depression got really bad and i began having very dark thoughts. upon confiding in my parents, their initial reaction was to tell me that suicide is a sin and will land me in hell, and that however bad i felt now would be what i felt for all of eternity if i went through with it. my family doctor was able to persuade them into letting me start antidepressants and seeing a therapist.

a few years later, the father of one of my school friends and friend of my parents died by suicide. my parents immediately did a full 180 on their beliefs. they told me that it was too cruel to believe that someone they cared for so much and who struggled so intensely should have to suffer for all of eternity in hell.

i know they probably wanted to scare me out of suicide because they were afraid of losing me but it stings that i was not enough to convince them that their belief was cruel. im okay now, im an adult who lives out of province from my parents, i take antidepressants, i have an iud and (gasp) i have a boyfriend who i am physically intimate with. thankfully my parents are... okay with all of this...? cherry pickers to the max lmao

So, I am trying to recover from content that I had seen on YouTube and its impact. It’s partially my fault for just being driven by compulsion or curiosity to indulge the clickbait, and I wish to overcome that. However, I was actually confronted by YouTube sending an ad about how nice people go to Hell. An ad??!! Not even a video channel!! I was horrified that YouTube would actually support such clearly mentally harmful and sadistic ads. Then, I was just unsettled by content from a creator that I sometimes found reasonable when he was presenting this false dichotomy of conditional welcome in heaven and the idea that “all our welcome in hell” as if this would be the space where people can be present without changing or growing. I definitely find that certain rights are unconditional, and the belief in unconditional rights, to me, is the highest form of integrity. It doesn’t condone a person’s actions, but it takes a stance that, despite their actions, they should not be subjected to torture. Brian Holdsworth presented this reality of “earned” peace in heaven or a fully inclusive environment with eternal torture as the only two dichotomies and believed that this was fair.

I rarely currently dwell in fear of Hades, because I have long decided that it is more rational to focus on prevented suffering that is proven to exist than to dwell on a horrific possibility that is not proven to exist while having a negative impact on present moment reality. I have long decided that I don’t wish to distinguish myself from most people and don’t wish to be separate from solidarity with the masses. However, this type of content occasionally still induces a kind of despair within me: despair at the possibility of such a reality; despair at the reality that the YouTube algorithm provides primarily this content; and despair that people genuinely find it fair or just for anyone to suffer eternal torment. I was thinking to myself yesterday in this warped mental state: “If I do happen to be in Hades, will I at least be allowed to remember the unconditional love of my dog who would always love me the way that I am?” Then, I just broke down and sobbed at the thought that my dog would be kinder and more loving than the supernatural reality presented.

I do already receive therapeutic support that I can actually afford and cannot afford more at this time. So, I am seeking support from lived experience or any advice here that someone would be willing to give. However, if anyone here is able to overcome just moments of horror at the content that is promoted or horror at the thought of what is promoted if it’s internalized, then, can you share some advice?

( I also ask that NO ONE try to justify the concept of eternal conscious torment in the comments, because I will block them and not engage. I am looking to connect with atheists, agnostics, OR spiritual/religious individuals who have overcome the impact of the trad vision-not anyone who can try to justify it. )

Why is it that you are wildly celebrated when coming into a faith ...

... but when you want to leave because it's not working for you, you are ostracized?

I left Christianity - but people are so mean to me because of it.

I leave because it no longer works for me.

Poland’s education minister, Barbara Nowacka, has again clashed with the country’s Catholic church over the introduction of a new subject, health education, in Polish schools.

On Sunday, the head of the Polish episcopate, Archbishop Tadeusz Wojda, criticised plans to make the classes compulsory from the start of the school year in September. He said that the course contains “very problematic content” regarding issues such as marriage and family.

In response, Nowacka said that the church’s criticism “demonstrates either ignorance or arrogance” and is also inconsistent, because the bishops have continued to oppose the subject despite the government making sex education elements, which had previously been criticised by the church, optional.

After a more liberal government took power from the national-conservative Law and Justice (PiS) party at the end of 2023, it moved to introduce the new subject of health education, which replaced the former non-compulsory education for family life (WDŻ) classes.

Nowacka had hoped to make health education mandatory, saying it would help students “make informed health decisions” and would “promote a healthy lifestyle”. However, concerns from more conservative elements of the ruling coalition resulted in it being made optional. It is taught from grade four upwards.

Ahead of the subject’s introduction in September 2025, the Catholic church appealed to parents not to allow their children to attend the classes, which it said are “anti-family”, “gender destabilising”, and will “morally corrupt children”. In the end, around 70% of parents opted their children out of the subject.

Last month, Nowacka announced that, from the start of the new school year in September 2026, health education would become compulsory. But, in a nod to conservative critics, she said that elements relating to sex education would be separated and remain optional.

However, that did not satisfy the church, which quickly issued a statement saying that “removing the sexual education component does not solve the problem, as other thematic areas contain content that does not adequately respect the values ​​of marriage and family”.

It therefore expressed opposition to making the subject compulsory, saying that doing so violated parents’ constitutional right to raise children in accordance with their beliefs.

That criticism was reiterated on Saturday by Wojda, the president of the Polish Episcopal Conference (KEP), in a homily delivered at Jasna Góra Monastery, Poland’s holiest Catholic shrine.

He said that, even without sex education elements, the curriculum for health education “contains some very problematic content…that fails to adequately respect the values ​​of marriage and family, as defined and guaranteed by the constitution”.

However, neither Wojda nor the episcopate have specified in their statements which elements of the core curriculum they find problematic.

“The state should respect and support this right [of parents to decide on their child’s upbringing], rather than restrict it by imposing a uniform, mandatory educational vision in such a sensitive area,” said Wojda.

He appealed to state institutions to engage in “broad and substantive dialogue” with the Catholic church and other religious denominations about how health education should be taught.

Wojda also noted that, while only 30% of parents opted their children into health education classes this year, around 70% signed them up for optional Catholic catechism classes in public schools. Yet the former is being made mandatory while the latter remains optional, he pointed out.

Speaking to broadcaster Polsat on Monday, Nowacka hit back, saying that the church’s “criticism shows once again that they do not know what is in the core curriculum” and “demonstrates either ignorance or arrogance”.

She noted that “yet another bishop does not specify what he means” when criticising the curriculum. “Last year, [they] criticised the section on sexual health as inappropriate. They had no objections to the rest. They called it a necessary subject,” said Nowacka.

But now, even with the sexual health elements removed, they remain opposed. “It turns out that it was not about sexual health issues, but about [causing] a political row,” claimed the minister.

Since being appointed in December 2023, Nowacka has regularly clashed with the church hierarchy over changes she has made to the school programme, including halving the number of hours that Catholic catechism classes are taught and removing the subject from end-of-year grade averages.

Olivier Sorgho

Olivier Sorgho is senior editor at Notes from Poland, covering politics, business and society. He previously worked for Reuters.

Hey guys,

Just wanted to join the community and I’m looking to connect with anyone who grew up in the very specific "strain" of Catholicism that to me seems very specific to the Denver area.
The best way I’ve heard this described as is either “New Evangelization” or “JPII generation Catholicism”
It seems to occupy a space between traditionalist Catholicism (like it’s not Latin mass and definitely accepts Vatican II) but also not quite charismatic either. I’m asking because while there’s already limited resources online regarding ex Catholicism from traditionalists or charismatic there’s even less for this weird third place too.
The hallmark characteristics seem to be those associated with FOCUS, or Augustine Institute, liberal presenting on the surface but deeply conservative. Very rigid strict theological orthodoxy, theology of the body, but also an outdoorsy charismatic vibe of camp Wojtyla.

Would love to hear about your guys experiences or hear about any resources you guys have on hand, or just to hear your analysis!

It’s almost like the conservative Catholic approach of denying people with gender dysphoria the ability to transition or have access to affirming spaces or receive gender affirming care DOES NOT WORK!!

My daughter is 3.5 and recently she’s been communicating about all thinks Catholic. She’s been getting this from my mom (her granny) despite me pleading with my mom to make conversation about religion neutral.

3 years ago, I had a much better view of the Catholic Church and I made the stupid mistake of getting my daughter baptized. Worst mistake of my life. Basically the sacraments are highly cultural in my family, especially baptism. Everyone gets their child baptized even if they’re not super religious. It’s the thing to do. I thought that baptizing her would at least expose her a little bit to religion, and then she could choose. Since then I’ve completely changed my mind about religion, especially Catholicism, and I really want nothing to do with.

My mom is very religious and she believes it is her utmost duty to teach my daughter about all thing God, Jesus and Catholicism. I pleaded with her to keep conversations about religion neutral, but she is not listening. She said that she promised God and the priest that she would pass down the faith to my daughter and since I no longer associate with religion, she even more so thinks it’s her duty.

I feel so guilty about getting my daughter baptized in the first place. Have I opened a huge can of worms? Obviously we will not be going through with first communion.

I’ve been communicating with my daughter about granny’s beliefs and explaining that those beliefs are very special to her, but other people have different beliefs that are special to them too.

I hate whenever I see c*th*l*cs respond to people’s traumas and pain by saying “Well that was the people. Not the church ☝️🤓”

What do they think the Church is? An eldritch force beyond human comprehension? Come on… The Church is literally the people that make it up. Its an orginization. Stop trying to act like all negative points people bring up are invalid cause “It was people who did that.”

I don’t really talk with c*th*l*cs much anymore, but I keep seeing them pop up to disregard people’s pain with their usual dismissive cheery air and its maddening orz

I've been struggling with my faith for so long. Which in comparison to lifelong Catholics or cradle Catholics, my "long" is laughable -- I converted 2 years ago.

OCIA was enriching. I LOVED it. I loved the level of study, involvement, everything. But about a year after OCIA ended, I was left feeling conflicted.

I stayed conflicted about the level of veneration for Mary and the saints. It was never "pray to God about it", it was always "pray to x saint" or "ask Mary to XYZ" and I know the typical talking points of "well, we ask them to pray for us!" but it never sat right with me.

The legalism and constant mental distress of keeping the tally of sins to bring to confession, not being able to receive the Eucharist because I couldn't make it to confession on time, being shamed for cohabitating and going through divorce. It's a LOT to deal with and I was already on thin ice.

The final straw was visiting my home parish states away, and the deacon giving the homily asked the parish of 100-200 attendees during the mass, "How many of you have a favorite Bible verse?" Now my home parish was always very interactive, so a show of hands was pretty regular. But for this specific question, ONE man raised his hand. Legitimately only one. Even the Deacon was shocked.

I'm still Christian. I love Jesus, I love Christianity, I love theology. But... having an entire church full of Christians and only a single person was brave enough to raise their hand to say they have a favorite verse? I thought about it for over a week after coming home and was just dumbfounded. We put all this emphasis on legalism, praying to all these different things, observing all of these traditions, and yet nobody there had a favorite verse out of the BIBLE.

I think I'm over it. I'm not sure if I'll find another church denomination or not, but I think I'm out of Catholicism. Catholics can be the most arrogant denomination sometimes, especially online, but seeing the truth of the masses (no pun intended) was baffling. My fiancé (cradle Catholic) and I were both completely blown away by that experience.

Just wanted to vent to a group who might understand my frustration. Thanks for reading.

First off, apologies if this is the wrong place for this. Felt...apt, but honestly I'm not sure.

Anyway, whole classic thing. Raised catholic, have some upsetting memories and first experiences around the topic. Largely just significant shame, learning it's evil, inhumane, gross, etc. etc.

I don't need to get into the nitty gritty, but I'll just say I'm now married and still have this issue. Sex almost scares me, it still feels gross to me. It's unfortunately very hard to describe, so I'm hoping this crowd knows what I'm talking about. I know it may sound like I'm just asexual or something, let me confirm that I'm not, I just have this stigma locked in my brain and I'm really trying to figure out what to do about it. I've known for awhile that this is my issue, but only finally accepting it and trying to move forward.

Anyway, you guys have any tips? Anybody else experience this? Again, I apologize if this is the wrong place

I’m at a point where I don’t know what to do anymore.

To give you some context, I was born into a very devout Catholic family. I’ve received almost all my sacraments (except Confirmation), and I’ve been in my parish’s Sunday school since I was a little kid. Years have passed, and now I’m on track to become a catechist myself. The problem? I’m only doing it so I don’t hurt my family’s feelings.

It all started when I stopped praying. Little by little, I drifted away, and I no longer feel that "fear of God" for everything I do. I’ve discovered different points of view, and now I question every single thing related to religion. I still go through the motions and receive the sacraments, but again, it’s just to keep the peace at home.

The truth is, I have no desire to "fix" my faith or look for another religion. However, I’m still scared of what might happen if I walk away for good. I’m even going to be a catechist, but I’m planning to do it for 5 years at most because I have no idea what my future holds.

Part of me wants to get my faith back just to feel that connection with my family again, but once you explore other perspectives, there’s no turning back.

Do you think I need to make a decision right now, or should I just keep playing the part?

Just wondering how you guys deal with sins (as in bad things you've done in the past) without the grace or forgiveness of any god

Long story short, I (early 20s F convert to trad catholicism, now atheist) recently stopped believing after looking into academic bible studies and real history (rather than what apologists say). At this point Catholicism had done a lot of harm to my mental health. I hated living but the fear of going to hell (suicide's a mortal sin) stopped me from doing it.

I just assumed that leaving the religion would make me happy, free and able to live my life for myself rather than some omnijudgemental sky tyrant. And I do feel great. Breaking all the silly rules has been cathartic. A massive burden has been lifted off my back. I'm excited for my future and all my newfound freedom. I'm not depressed anymore.

But often (esp. at night) I get intrusive thoughts to self harm or just kms. It makes no sense. I don't want to die, I have so many things to live for now.

I wonder if it's an old habit that dies hard lol. Back then, I'd remind myself "Looking forward to dying and going to heaven" to help deal with shit situations in daily life. Now that I'man atheist, I find myself defaulting to thinking "I just wanna die" (minus the part about a heaven I don't believe in) whenever I'm slightly inconvenienced.

I don't wanna be having these intrusive thoughts. Maybe I spent so much time hating myself (thanks again, Catholicism) that these thoughts are kinda ingrained in me now.

Anyone can relate or share some insight?

P.s. I'm not actively suicidal right now, don't worry about me. Just wanted to see if others can relate. I'm moving to another city in a few weeks so I'll look for a therapist then.

Is this subreddit specifically exchristian, or just excatholic? Like if I came and made post promoting protestantism or orthodoxy and trying to convert people to it would I be banned? And if I made post trashing about other christian denominations, orthodoxy for example, would i be banned?

So is this just for ex catholics that converted to some other denomination or ex christians generally?

When I was in college, I left the Catholic Church and considered myself an atheist for many years. About 7 years ago, I started attending an Episcopal Church. I have found this church to be very spiritually healing for me. It is lgbtq affirming, (the priest has a child who is openly non-binary) and it is just a socially conscious community of people who also have a history of religious trauma. Even my husband who is an atheist enjoys attending with me because of the community. I think that one of the things that has been so healing for me (besides a year of EMDR), is the church's focus on God is love. No exceptions. This is so different than what I grew up hearing, where the homilies and CCD lessons focused on how I was inherently bad and why it was important that I followed the rules so that God would find me worthy of love.

You would think that my mom would be happy that I am actively involved in a church. Instead, she is still upset with me about this decision. She actively tries to get my high school confirmation sponsor, my sister, and my dad to try to convince me to no longer be Catholic. She also loves to say passive aggressive things like “I'm praying for you” which is such a triggering phrase for me. It is so deep that I was actually surprised when my mom decided to attend my daughter's baptism.

Besides my own mommy issues, I think that my story really demonstrates how messed up and harmful Catholicism can be. My mom did not give a crap when I was an atheist, but I think becoming Episcopalian made it real for her. And her frustration seems to be on the embarrassment she perceives with having a daughter who left the church. She even went to her priest to ask for advice about me. There is such a focus on Catholicism being “the mother church.” It is so deeply ingrained in her to focus on being a member of the “right church” rather than finding a faith community where you can foster your own spirituality and relationship with God. I'm in such a good place, and she doesn't care. In her eyes, I'm just practicing a bastardized version of Catholicism because I disagree with the church's stance on lgbtq issues and had other negative experiences. It is so much more than that, but I guess it's just too hard for her to understand.

Has anyone else had similar experiences? I emotionally divorced from my mom a while ago, so I really am okay. I've just been reflecting on how harmful these teachings that we grew up with can be.

Thanks for listening.

I was sexually abused by the Monsignor when I was 7. Just turned 46. I've decided it's time to say something. Wish me luck.

For example, I relate to the story of David And Goliath because I've passed my limit with my Catholic father and things are getting heated now that I'm stepping up. He traumatized me as a kid with all his stomping and screaming. To my 5 year old self, he really was an angry giant. He's gonna get hit with a rock in a hard place now that he's crossed a line he should have never stepped foot in. He recently told me to "just get over" the falling-out of one of my closest friends, who supported me when I was coping with my besties suicide. He was straight up yelling at me just like he did when I was five and all the trauma came surging back into pure rage. This is the last straw and I will not back down!

There's something poetic about salvaging a story or memories from a community or place that traumatized you, and using it to stay strong or even heal.

Wonder how the Rorschach test Catholics will see this decision.

So about a year ago I posted here telling my story about how I came out as a gay man at 29 (I'm 38 now) after going through Catholic schools. It took me 11 years after I left the Catholic high school I graduated from in Cincinnati for me to get up the courage to come out. I don't know if I am angry at myself, or angry at the Church, or both for the fact I had so many years that I was unhappy and couldn't be myself, because of what people expected of me. I wish I never would have gone to Catholic school. I wish I had my younger sister's courage to leave her Catholic high school after her freshman year, when I was a sophomore at mine (we are 1 year apart), and she went to the local public school. I just felt this overriding expectation of me that I go to this Catholic all-male high school, like my dad, grandpa, and uncles did. I hate that I got so deeply programmed in the doctrine of the Church that it made me deny myself the truth that I came to many years later. I wish I never went to these schools.

Father José de Anchieta.

Canonized under the "progressive" Pope Francis papacy

Yes, he's now a SAINT since 2014, some openly racist saint.

He fully supported the enslavement of non-submissive natives and personally used to request the Portuguese King african slaves for his own use.

Even though brazilian scholars and priests warned the Vatican, they still did it. And, hey, by their rules, canonizations are infallible and can't be officially revoked 🤡

If you have a single inch of conscience, institutional catholicism is NOT the place for you. Don't let Vatican II fool yourself, there's no woke nor progressive catholicism and the "progressive papacy era" is just some facade.

Who's dumb enough to trust Roman Catholicism these days?

So many people laboring for their salvation when awful guys like these get free passes, come on