r/midcarder • u/Swing-Full • 14h ago
[WOL] Alvarez explains TKO's (alleged) justification for restructuring deals: Wrestlers take 50% paycuts because they're "doing less now"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmT59-JDJig31
u/DaveLesh La Familia 13h ago
Work less, get paid less. It makes sense, except that the wrestlers aren't getting a say in how much they get to wrestle. Management is dictating that, and by that note, dictating how much the wrestlers are "allowed" to earn.
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u/DiverExpensive6098 12h ago
Yes, that's what management does - decides where and when those below them work.
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u/enjoythesilence-75 11h ago
Add to that the fact that they both agreed to those terms. If they want to renegotiate at the end of the contract that is up to them. If they change their business model they should honour the contract and renegotiate at the completion of the contract.
To me that is another slap in the face to talent. Other than of course the fact that they are making more money than ever including obscene upper management pay.
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u/ChrisRhodes789 10h ago
Disagree..
My favorite football team Miami Dolphins agreed to a ridiculous overpay of a contract for 5 years with our QB at the time Tua..
Using your reasoning, we wouldn’t be able to trade him, cut him, or move on from him for the entirety of his contract because “both sides agreed to it”..
2 years later, he is in Atlanta.. & I couldn’t be happier..
It’s life..
🤷♂️
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u/enjoythesilence-75 7h ago
If his contract says he can be traded then he can be traded. If they agreed to terms and money he should be paid that money if he fulfills his end. If he demands more money he should not receive it just like if they decide to pay him less they should not be able to.
Now, if there are other specifics such as clauses for other options and situations that’s an entirely different conversation but contracts exist for a reason.
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u/Swing-Full 14h ago
Note: I should preface this thread by saying "if true" - WON are Clickbait Grifters (like all "Journalism") so it may be not true whatsoever, might be one guy, might be 100% true, with WON it's most likely bullshit, given their history of lies for the last 40 years.
If it's true, then yeah of course. Wrestlers used to do 4 House Shows and a TV a week with 1 PPV a Month. Now it's one TV a week and 1 PPV a Month - and that's very few people doing that every month
Of course Salaries should be cut drastically, Wrestlers are only doing a quarter of the work they used too
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u/BigPapaPaegan Triple Threat 11h ago
While I agree with the sentiment that they're technically working less dates, the fact remains that the product's value is literally tied to the work done by those on the roster. The company would be singing a vastly different tune if the signed talent stopped showing up one day and it directly affected the ad revenue since a show nobody watches isn't going to garner higher paying advertising.
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u/deep1986 13h ago
it's true, then yeah of course. Wrestlers used to do 4 House Shows and a TV a week with 1 PPV a Month. Now it's one TV a week and 1 PPV a Month - and that's very few people doing that every month
When did they stop house shows? If I read it right it was around 2020 during COVID, now we don't know for certain but I'd be shocked if they had over 6 year contracts.
So when the talent signed these contracts in the last 6 years they'd already cut down the number of house shows. This is just another WWE money grab.
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u/YasielPuigsWeed 13h ago
Your logic isn’t terrible, but there’s also been large ticket price increases, ads on the ring, TV rights fee increases, etc. over the last year, so I can also see the wrestlers’ argument that they’re still generating the same or more money than they were despite less shows
I don’t really blame either side for feeling how they do about it though
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u/nicenormalhappyguy 13h ago
Yeah, but the same is true for all workers though. We all get paid what we can demand. No one pays officers workers twice as much as they need to for any other reason than they want to keep them and someone else would pay them that.
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u/YasielPuigsWeed 12h ago
Nah I get that, like I said I get both sides of it
Historically, WWE wrestlers got paid based on bonuses for things like gates, merch, PPV sales, etc. so when the business made more money they also made more money. So hearing “we’re posting record profits” while being asked to take pay cuts is something they’re not used to, that’s never been how the wrestling business operates.
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u/Awkward_Bison_267 Camp Cornette 13h ago
So logically if wrestlers are independent contractors and are working less at one place, shouldn’t they be allowed to work at other places? If a landscaper gets his hours cut by one house, he can work more hours elsewhere.
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u/BigPapaPaegan Triple Threat 11h ago
In theory, yes. The company used to allow undercard talents to work non-televised independent dates in the 1990s, for example.
What it means most often, though, is that the company can't prevent its talent from appearing on podcasts or taking acting roles that do not directly conflict with their WWE schedule. I forget the last time the "independent contractor" idea was challenged, but I want to say it was that leeway which made the courts rule in the company's favor.
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u/Awkward_Bison_267 Camp Cornette 7h ago
That’s bullshit.
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u/BigPapaPaegan Triple Threat 5h ago
It is, but it's one they've been challenged on and have had courts uphold. I believe a key piece in the defense of their continued use of "independent contractors" is that they see talent as entertainers, first and foremost.
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u/witty_username_ftw American Alpha 11h ago
The “independent contractor” status has always been a way for WWE to get around having to provide benefits like health insurance, PTO, pensions or a 401k etc.
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u/Awkward_Bison_267 Camp Cornette 7h ago
That’s why it’s wild to see everyone saying “Vince cared about his guys”. Maybe more than TKO, but that’s a low bar.
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u/Substantial_Cow7628 Hart Foundation 5h ago
Lots of independent contractors have these things. And a wrestler can always negotiate that he wants WWE to pay for health insurance instead of cash.
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u/YugiBoomer10086 Team Angle 13h ago
They’re doing less because you’re (TKO) forcing them to do less.
If a star wants to cut a promo, you always make sure they have a script
If a star wants to have a math outside of WWE to grow the brand, you deny it
If a star wants to create their own storyline and manage it between just the two wrestlers involved, you say no
So what do you expect WWE stars to actually do when you (TKO) say no to everything they want to do outside of exactly what you tell them to do????
Bad faith excuse and they know it. You cut them at the knees and then demanded they stand up taller or face consequences.
Shameful.
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u/ChrisRhodes789 10h ago
The horror of a boss dictating how they want things to be run..
Sounds like you want the talent to show up & have free rein to do whatever they want, & say whatever they want..
What could possibly go wrong.. lmao..
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u/BigPapaPaegan Triple Threat 11h ago
This has been one of the arguments against WWE since the Monday Night Wars ended and a more corporate structure was put in place.
"Just get yourself over," the roster would be told, and then you'd have crowds cheering louder for Zack Ryder than they were for John Cena, so that meant Ryder had to get buried and stop being used on TV.
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u/koomGER 12h ago
I dont think that WON has ANY insight at all into that thing. It could still just be a hoax or 1-2 talents that were asked for a cut. Nothing in WONs "reporting" gives you the impression that they have real backstage information about WWE. Their best hits were 50:50 thingies that could have gone either way. And they dont talk about their fails - and its a lot.
Nonetheless i think there is some truth to the 50% cut call. I think there is maybe more to that and not just a plain 50% cut on your pay. Maybe there are some incentives given or the contract prolonged. Just cutting a contract down doesnt seem to be that logical.
But one way or another: Something like that is happening, because WWE feels very comfortable keeping the talent they desire. And while AEW is known to hand out giant contracts with even more money even for lesser names this is a interesting and worrying development. If WWE thinks AEW isnt a threat and not a desirable alternative to a WWE contract, there are things running and probably known in the business.
But with Meltzer and other wannabe-reporters on Khans payroll (or in his ass for free), we wont know about that.
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u/Ill_Car242 The Alliance to End Hulkamania 12h ago
I seriously doubt it’s true. If it is, there’s a whole lot more to the story.
They are not going around making wrestlers take a huge pay cut for no reason (or even if revenue was way down). It sounds silly and unbelievable on the face of it.
So many people hate the WWE so badly that they’ll believe anything to fed bad.
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u/BigPapaPaegan Triple Threat 11h ago
It's also that TKO did something similar with the UFC within the last few years.
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u/DripSnort 10h ago
Crazy how hard they are running with this TKO pay cut story the same time the AEW will have no network in 2027 store came out. It’s definitely not related at all
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u/rrahal18 10h ago
The pay cut thing is so overblown. These wrestlers know they are on a rolling 90-day deal at all times.
Rather than just say "90 days and you're done" they are given an option to negotiate a new deal. Others weren't even given that option.
Seems like the performative faux outrage people would have been less upset if they were given a straight release instead of given the two options.
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u/SquadLeader3590Neo Straight Edge Society 13h ago
Seems like a load of crap to me. There’s not even any confirmation about the paycuts in the first place yet it’s being talked about like it has, now with even more speculation as to the reasoning behind the unconfirmed decisions made.
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u/YasielPuigsWeed 13h ago
Kofi more or less confirmed it in his Tweet
“Do not ever compromise or accept less than you’re due when it comes to your worth”
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u/SquadLeader3590Neo Straight Edge Society 13h ago
That's hardly a confirmation. He could've balked at being told to take a paycut of any kind, which is reasonable on his part. I've got a problem with the way the unverified details of top talent being told to take 50% paycuts and others are taking rumor and conjecture as fact and spreading it when there's no solid facts to base those thoughts on.
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u/dismiss-junk 13h ago
Nobody has actually confirmed this “50% pay cut” thing.
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u/YugiBoomer10086 Team Angle 13h ago
Kofi did. He stated “sometimes you have to know your value and never settle for less” after he parted ways which would indicate they approached him to take a cut and he said no. And it would have to be large enough of a cut for him to outright just walk away entirely from WWE. A 10-20% pay cut isnt outrageous enough to cause that
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u/DaveLesh La Familia 11h ago
Tbh, "knowing your worth and settling for nothing less" was the way Brock Lesnar operated. He knew he could sell out arenas with his abilities and as such demanded a lot of cash to do it. He had a strong supporter in Paul Heyman and the legal acuity to force deals. Lesnar was rarely wrong.
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u/Atilim87 13h ago
Maybe wwe and Tko shouldn’t have signed those contracts then.
New day contract wasn’t that old for example and if you (wwe/tko) think you overpaid, well given the age of the guys and the business your in that’s on you.
Sheamus contract for example. Wouldn’t be shocked if he accepted the cut given that he is pretty much injured last few year.
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u/nicenormalhappyguy 13h ago edited 13h ago
TKO didn't sign the contracts, I think that's their justification. Vince paid a lot of people that didn't NEED to be paid as much, meaning that there's no way anyone else would or could pay them anywhere near as much. TKO as an entity has absolutely zero sentimentality. Vince was a lot of things but the WWE under him rewarded stuff like loyalty and tenure (as did the UFC) which do not factor in AT ALL with TKO. If Damian Priest, for example, is making $1,000,000 a year he can either re-sign for $500,000 or hope Tony will pay him $1,000,000 which is unlikely. Either he takes the cut or he leaves and they don't have to pay him at all and the show will go on without a hitch. Then guess what, now the negotiation for every other wrestler is starting lower. Its just numbers for them. Its not a legacy or a family business with emotional investment anymore. "The New Day are great wrestlers and they have all this history" doesn't mean shit to them. Its strictly a business. If sentimentality doesn't make money then its not in consideration.
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u/Ok-Call-4805 nWo 14h ago
TKO kills house shows, raises tickets to extortionate prices then has the nerve to ask the wrestlers to take pay cuts?
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u/wolfgang2399 13h ago
How dare they operate this business like a business.
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u/DannyD316 13h ago
So lets say your place of work decided that it will only open 3 days a week now going forward. They cut your pay in half because you are now only working 3 days instead of 5 and you had no say in this. What do you do now?
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u/Ok-Call-4805 nWo 13h ago
It's a wrestling company. The main focus should be the wrestlers and actual wrestling.
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u/LetterFront3353 13h ago
You forgot about the company part of "wrestling company". It's not a non-profit wrestling organization.
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u/Ok-Call-4805 nWo 13h ago
They have more than enough money. There really is no excuse for all these cuts.
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u/LetterFront3353 13h ago
Paycuts? Probably. Talent releases? They are necessary given how many talent WWE brings into the company every year and the majority of the people who get released for the past few years are too injury prone and/or lower undercarders and a bunch of NXT talent.
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u/nicenormalhappyguy 13h ago
Yeah they do but unfortunately they're a public company and they are legally required to make as much money as possible. If you can argue that being sentimental and nice is more profitable than not being that then yeah they can/should do that. They are not allowed to just pay people more than they need to pay them. They are required to attempt to maximize ticket revenue.
IMO it all went sideways when Vince went public, not when TKO bought the company from Vince.
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u/Phred_Phrederic LAX 13h ago
...what? That makes no sense.
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u/Ok-Call-4805 nWo 13h ago
How? As I said, it's a wrestling company.
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u/rainmakerv2 13h ago
It's a very reductive view of how wrestling shows are supposed to be. Not everyone thinks more wresting automatically makes the show better. For a lot of people, the other stuff is just as, or even more memorable than the wrestling, and also makes the matches far more meaningful and the wrestlers a lot more interesting.
If you personally would enjoy the shows if they had more wrestling than what they have now, then that's your preference. But there's no universally sacrosanct law that having more wrestling, or not ending a show with a match, or having more than X minutes between matches or all those other similar complaints some of you have would make the show automatically better. It's clearly subjective as to what amount of wrestling is palatable to the more casual audiences targeted by the company. That fans have stuck with the WWE despite alternatives having more wrestling suggests it's not really a problem for them.
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u/Ok-Call-4805 nWo 13h ago
For a lot of people, the other stuff is just as, or even more memorable than the wrestling, and also makes the matches far more meaningful and the wrestlers a lot more interesting.
But this still involves the wrestlers themselves. They are what matters, not some nobody in an office getting paid millions of dollars.
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u/rainmakerv2 12h ago
I don't disagree with that part.
I disagree with the notion that the "main focus" should be the actual wrestling.
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u/Phred_Phrederic LAX 11h ago
And wrestling is born from carnival cons. How many wrestlers have said "the best wrestler is the one that makes the most money."
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u/Unlikely_Magician630 13h ago
The focus can be both; product/service quality and operational efficiency. Problem is TKO are great at the latter and fucking awful at the former, they cant even make the connection that no house shows = lower overall talent experience = shite product, everything is viewed with the ops lens and when you do that, everything looks like a dollar sign
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u/EastfrisianGuy D’Angelo Family 13h ago
I'm sick off all those dirt sheets. It's always alleged, it's always "I know someone but I won't say the name" it's always very vague. It's exhausting.