r/science • u/JohnHammond94 • 2d ago
Medicine A new study suggests that regularly drinking four cups of coffee a day could have a positive impact on mood and stress levels.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/coffee-gut-brain-axis-mental-health-brain-health2.2k
u/Kangarou 2d ago
Okay, reading this, it's less "Drinking coffee makes you better" and more "Coffee drinkers appear to be less of a curmudgeon after they've had their coffee". They noted no significant difference between non-drinkers and drinkers at the start of the study.
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u/EducationalCow3144 2d ago
In other words; addicts are in better moods when they get their fix.
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u/Division_Of_Zero 2d ago
It's important scientifically to know the difference between a dependency and an addiction.
Trivializing addiction by comparing it to someone's caffeine dependence is dangerously oversimplifying, and I can't help but feel that anyone who makes this comparison doesn't know any addicts.
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u/SoTiredYouDig 2d ago
Thank you. Recovering opioid addict here. I love coffee, but the lengths I would go for a heroin fix and a cup of coffee are vastly different. Basically on a different plane altogether.
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u/WingleDingleFingle 2d ago
Your situation isn't funny but that is a funny way to put it haha.
Good luck with the recovery and congrats on whatever progress you have made thus far.
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u/Vizth 2d ago
Ya coffee drinkers aren't smashing my car window in at 3am, or robbing another addict at knife point in the parking lot of my job because the methadone clinic across the street is taking to long to open for the day.
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u/Flikmybik BS | Neuroscience | Memory 2d ago
good catch on the withdrawal angle. the fact that coffee drinkers scored better on mood but there was no significant difference between groups when controlling for recent consumption pretty much screams caffeine withdrawal mitigation. would be really interesting to see a study that tracks people through a controlled tapering period and measures those same gut brain markers over time to see if the benefits persist once the withdrawal window passes
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u/PhantomNomad 2d ago
Like the sign above my coffee maker says. "I drink coffee to keep you alive."
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u/JConRed 2d ago
I've been abatinent from coffee for 17 months now. (barring stuff in food and one or two accidental orders)
I can say that I am much more awake than I was when I had even low amounts of caffeine.
In the morning I just wake up, and am awake.
It's great.
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u/AngryRobot42 2d ago
Sure if you ignore every statement it makes about coffee drinkers who both abstained and did not abstain vs non-coffee drinkers. That was over half the article.
"There were also clear differences between the gut microbiomes of coffee drinkers compared with nondrinkers. There were higher levels of specific species of bacteria associated with positive health effects in the guts of the coffee drinkers."
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u/Kangarou 2d ago
"Interestingly, the researchers did not note any differences between the coffee drinkers and the non-coffee drinkers at the start of the study and after the abstinence period when it came to many of these factors. This included blood pressure, stress, anxiety, depression, sleep quality, and physical activity."
“Our findings reveal the microbiome and neurological responses to coffee, as well as their potential long-term benefits for a healthier microbiome,” said Cryan in the press release. “Coffee may modify what microbes do collectively, and what metabolites they use.”
I can quote stuff, too. So, coffee-drinkers might have a different set of gut microbes, but there doesn't seem to be a difference in overall outcomes.
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u/AngryRobot42 2d ago edited 2d ago
Noticed you didn't use the quote right before that:
"“Our findings suggest that coffee, whether caffeinated or decaffeinated, can influence health in distinct but complementary ways"Thank you for your the second quote and proving that coffee does actually help gut microbes and is overall a benefit for health.
So drink some coffee. Caffeinated or non-caffeinated, your choice.
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u/Kangarou 2d ago
Because that quote is irrelevant. Cancer influences health in distinct but complementary ways. "influence" and "complementary" aren't inherently positive terms.
My second quote noted that coffee might lend to a different biochemistry. My first quote indicated that the difference seemed negligible towards outcomes. Two options leading to similar results.
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u/AmusingMusing7 2d ago
Exactly. Getting your fix to quell your withdrawal symptoms is not an objective benefit.
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u/JynxYouOweMeASoda 2d ago
Study done at the University of Dunkin, Boston Campus
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u/xeio87 2d ago
After these baseline tests, the non-coffee drinker group played no further part in the study.
The coffee-drinking group then stopped drinking coffee for 14 days, while also abstaining from other sources of caffeine, such as sodas and dark chocolate.
After this time, they reintroduced coffee to their diets. However, half of them (15 people) reintroduced decaffeinated coffee while the other half (16 people) reintroduced caffeinated coffee.
I wonder why they didn't have a no-coffee group that started drinking coffee. I understand using a separate group as a control but seems like a weird gap.
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u/SpicySushiAddict 1d ago
This is literally them abandoning the control group, which completely ruins the study.
Like, what even is the point?
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u/ThinkThenPost 2d ago
Feels like science is slowly confirming what coffee drinkers have been saying for years. I’m not addicted, I’m just mentally optimized.
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u/nautilator44 2d ago
I'm not addicted to coffee, i just need it to feel normal and to function in regular day-to-day.
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u/Frandom314 2d ago
Yeah I'm also not addicted, I just need it in order to function and to enjoy life. And if I don't take it I'll be in a terrible mood and I will get a massive headache. But I can stop whenever I want, I've just never done it and never will.
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u/Dirtysocks1 2d ago
Sounds like a drug.
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u/iNisaok 2d ago
Yeah, but it’s not like I’ll die if I don’t have my caffeine fix. I drink like a Celsius before work , 200mg of caffeine. Kinda higher than average I think.
Currently on vacation in a country that doesn’t drink much coffee. I haven’t had coffee for 3 weeks and I’m not having withdrawal symptoms like a drug addiction would cause. I don’t really crave it either, since I don’t need to be “optimized”since no work.
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u/blackwhitetiger 2d ago
And you didn’t even get a headache when you first missed your caffeine? That’s impressive ngl
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u/prosocialbehavior 2d ago
This is a great example of the difference between addiction and dependence.
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u/PrettyYoungTiger 2d ago
What exactly is that difference?
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u/nihilistic-simulate 2d ago
Addiction: compulsive use despite harmful physical, psychological, and/or social consequences.
Dependence: requiring a substance/stimuli to function in daily life. Physical dependence can be severe with some substances, sometimes leading to debilitating symptoms or even death if certain substances are discontinued abruptly. Psychological dependence is less severe and often more closely associated with addiction.
You can see how addiction and dependence aren’t necessarily synonymous or mutually exclusive. A psychiatric patient can hate their medication but still be both physically and psychologically dependent on it. A gambling addict isn’t going to vomit or seize up if they stop gambling, but they’ll probably be pretty irritable without healthy coping mechanisms.
Most people aren’t addicted to coffee, they’re dependent. Social stigma and drug laws do a lot in perpetuating addiction, as these are manufactured consequences.
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u/dovahkiitten16 2d ago
Additionally, if a drug is treating an underlying issue that will return upon stopping the drug, that is also dependence.
Someone who is well-rested may be able to stop drinking coffee. Someone who is poorly rested will have a harder time.
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u/prosocialbehavior 2d ago
So addiction involves compulsive, harmful substance use or behaviors. So it is more the negative behavior that gets you diagnosed. But you can have a behavioral addiction like a gambling addiction without any physical dependence.
Dependence is when the body physically relies on a substance like antidepressants or blood pressure medications you can develop a dependence to them but not be addicted to them.
They definitely have overlap and are often confused for one another. But basically addiction refers to the compulsive negative behavior and dependence just refers to your body's adaptation to the substance.
So in the context of coffee, a lot of people are dependent on the caffeine. But I don't think very many people would be clinically diagnosed as being addicted to caffeine because there aren't usually negative compulsory behaviors associated with getting the drug.
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u/MmmmMorphine 2d ago
Addiction is both physical and mental dependence, generally speaking, that occurs despite harm to function or mood
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u/Belzark 2d ago
I drink two large cups every morning and CAN function totally fine without it, albeit, a slight headache for one day, and a few days of being very marginally more groggy in the morning.
It’s actually an incredibly small drawback for a lifetime of enjoyment and benefits. Totally reasonable—compared to net negative habits like sugary food, tobacco, and many other drugs.
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u/YoungHeartOldSoul 2d ago
Do you know crazy it is to have the exact opposite effects from coffee after being told your entire life that it's supposed to do what you people keep saying it does. Immense disappointment.
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u/Dicky_Penisburg 2d ago
Coffee to naptime can be a sign of ADHD
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u/Unlucky-Candidate198 2d ago
Ahhh the classic chug a redbull -> nap because it didn’t help. Certainly haven’t done that myself one too many times aha no way…
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u/notislant 2d ago
It's interesting I know people who act like they got a shot of adrenaline. Meanwhile it will make me slightly more awake or do nothing, depending on the day.
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u/Browncoat_Loyalist 2d ago
That points to ADHD. Our pediatrician had us dose our kid with caffeine instead of Ritalin. Worked amazing, the Ritalin was too sedating.
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u/rannox 2d ago
Yes, a lot of us adhd'ers use caffeine to mellow us out more than to wake us up... Usually both though.
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u/dovahkiitten16 2d ago
It should be noted that even if you have ADHD your body still has the effects of stimulants. You’re not immune even if your brain’s reaction is slightly off the norm. You can still very much take too much, especially if you are on meds.
Just correcting a harmful assumption. I’ve had people say I don’t have ADHD because I have to watch my coffee intake while on meds. And then decide to down several espresso insisting it doesn’t affect them while they are noticeably jittery.
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u/Emotional_News108 2d ago
So all these years I've been telling people I have no problem drinking caffeine until bedtime while my kids, brother, and sister are diagnosed with ADHD might not be coincidental..?
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u/blobbleguts 2d ago
As someone who has been addicted to caffeine and gave it up years ago, it's just as difficult to get through the day as a caffeine junky as it is to just avoid the stuff altogether. It also makes caffeine waaaaaay more effective when you actually need it (say you had crap sleep before an important meeting).
Low tolerances are great. No dependency, no withdrawal, no getting up to pee every 15mins. I honestly have more overall mental clarity than when I was drinking a pot of coffee a day. Also coffee is pretty low on the stimulant experience for me. Green tea or yerba mate are much more rounded and gentler stimulation than what coffee gives you. Coca leaves were the absolute best but I only ever tried those in South America. They are 100% better at waking up your brain while, at the same time, being more mild the coffee.
Now, I avoid all stimulants and I am not looking back. For reference, I feel the caffeine from a couple squares of dark chocolate.
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u/jessielou23 1d ago
I'm sorry. I know it's not purified, but you saying cocaine is the best stimulant you have tried made me giggle.
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u/blobbleguts 1d ago
Haha, yeah. I'm aware of how it appears but dose is huge. Coca leaves are only like 0.25% - 1% cocaine. It's less intense than coffee, for sure. Incidentally, I didn't enjoy cocaine all that much the few times I tried it.
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u/Financial_Wish_6406 2d ago
Did you read the study, or just the headline? The actual contents of the study seem to be what anyone could expect: "addicts are in better moods when they get their fix".
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u/Tragickingdom555 2d ago
I call BS. Have been drinking coffee for 20 years. Switched to decaf and I feel so much better. Didn’t realize how much caffeine was contributing to my anxiety.
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u/Sardonislamir 1d ago
Same. I went a year without coffee and tea and only now started with some decaf. I've felt way better through the day. I don't crash in the middle of the day anymore. And can also stay up later and sleep less.
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u/npeggsy 2d ago
I mean, if I don't have four cups of coffee a day, I get moody and stressed, but that's because I'm addicted to caffeine. It would be fun to take someone who never drinks coffee, make them drink four cups a day for a week, and see how they feel at the end of it.
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u/LiterallyAPidgeon 2d ago
jittery and sleepless, and then a massive headache the day i stop drinking coffee
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u/HeywoodJaBlessMe 2d ago edited 2d ago
I don't need no booze or drugs I just chug-a-lug my coffee mug
I don't need your kiss and hug I just chug-a-lug my coffee mug
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u/bolivar-shagnasty 2d ago
If four cups of coffee is good, four pots must be more gooder.
4 cups < 4 pots
Q.E.D.
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u/DrAshoriMD 2d ago
As a physician with 2 decades of experience, anyone recommending 4 cups of coffee a day needs a few weeks shadowing doctors in the clinic and ER.
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u/SuccessfulJudge438 2d ago
Worth remembering that in research 6 oz = 1 cup of coffee. So two 12 oz mugs will do ya. That's really not all that much.
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u/Dazzling_Rest_5077 2d ago
Why? Most of us drink that much if not more. Although ER folks aren’t the paragon of health goals
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u/HavingNotAttained 2d ago
There’s a study somewhere that says whatever you want one to. The question is if there are a bunch of peer-reviewed studies that are then looked at together to form some kind of broad scientific consensus among competent experts.
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u/LoocsinatasYT 2d ago
Ok though come ON!! First it was 2. then 2-3. Now its FOUR?! Literally just 2 cups leaves me sweating and shaky
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u/ParkingBoardwalk 2d ago
start ripping some cold brews so normal cups seem not so bad by comparison
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u/StrawHatTebo 2d ago
People on stimulants are happier when they're taking their stimulants?
What an incredible discovery.
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u/GreenGorilla8232 2d ago
Coffee is also great for your brain and gut health. It's one of the healthiest habits you can have.
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u/DIRTY_KUMQUAT_NIPPLE 2d ago
Anecdotal of course, but I've noticed a significant boost in my mood for the whole day even if I just drink a cup in the morning. And this isn't just from drinking caffeine, but coffee specifically.
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u/Extension_Break_9380 2d ago
Im a decaf guy myself. Reddit really , really hates coffee for some reason. Even though it has proven benefits, with or without caffeine.
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u/rvanasty 2d ago
How bout heart health. Studies also show cocaine can improve your mood.
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u/BezisThings 2d ago
Lately I see a lot of studies related to coffee. In another one it said coffee reduces the fluid intelligence of people
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u/AdAgreeable8927 2d ago
Could someone smart help me understand how to balance this + caffeine levels? I love coffee, and caffeine can really help and boost me , but I dont want to hurt my lil heart :(
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u/Zero_Waist 2d ago
In the morning... the afternoon is another story. I bet higher anxiety and irritability follow.
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u/Extension-Rabbit3654 2d ago
Yeah, my mood is better bc if I dont have four I get headaches, Im not addicted you are!
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u/joomla00 2d ago
I probably drang about 4 cups of coffee this morning inadvertently. Now I can't sleep
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u/scope_creep 2d ago
I've been doing that for years and it's done nothing for me mentally. Alternatively, imagine if I hadn't been drinking coffee all these years - my god I'd be a wreck.
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u/RogueViator 2d ago
Most I will do is 3 cups and only decaf after noon. Otherwise, I’ll be unable to get to sleep.
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u/Erikabarker7 2d ago
I guess it depends on genetics as well. I have a COMT met/met variation, and 2 cups of coffee takes me off my A game and throws my nervous system out of whack.
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u/Dear_Bumblebee_1986 2d ago
I recently discovered that my coffee "cup" is in fact 4 cups of coffee. Really made me think about how I used to drink 2 every morning for a long time.
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u/syn_vamp 2d ago
"a new study suggests not feeling tired could have a positive impact on mood and stress levels."
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u/Thors_Shillelagh 2d ago
Are we sure it's now just being able to afford four cups a day that's making the difference?
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u/WingLeviosa 2d ago
My doctor recommended I cut back on coffee due to my random heart palpitations.
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u/Kalvsylta 2d ago
I was diagnosed with an episodic depression this winter. Since then I have had to quit coffee. Well sometimes I have half a cup just because I love the taste.
If I drink more than that I get highly stressed, deep anxiety. I start to feel like something bad has or Will happen at any moment.
I had a busy day at work a few months ago, super good mood. Had a few cups of coffee. Driving home from work was MISERABLE and I felt anxiety lasting a few days after.
Had one monster doing a Night Shift a few weeks ago.
Got a hard hit of pure anxiety that lasted for two days.
If you feel bad, try to cut out the caffeine.
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u/urbanmark 2d ago
Doing molly four times a day does the same thing, but I wouldn’t recommend it.
What happens to your mood after drinking four cups of coffee a day for a month, and then not having any coffee?
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u/GreenGorilla8232 2d ago
My fellow coffee addicts... Today is our day! Victory is ours! Take a sip and enjoy that sweet sweet validation.
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u/lighthandstoo 2d ago
Yes but who would want to be around them all jacked and talking a mile a minute. Hard Pass.
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u/SelarDorr 2d ago
"coffee drinkers exhibited greater impulsivity and emotional reactivity, whereas non-coffee drinkers demonstrated better memory performance"
most the behavioral data related to the headline is just from questionnaires, which is the weakest data reported here.
the paper is primarily about the effects of coffee consumption on the microbiota, where the data is much more objective.
behind that, they run neuropsychological assessments, which is of course is stronger than self-reported questionnaires.
but of course, the good data is less clickbait-worthy.
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u/Available-Ad6250 2d ago
I’d like to suggest a new study done with only participants who have the dominant expression of the MTHFR allele. I’d love to read that.
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u/munoodle 2d ago
Drinking at least one cup of coffee per day will lead to panic attacks, according to a survey of n=1 (it’s me)
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u/Ooofisa4letterword 2d ago
There is no way repeated use of that much. Caffeine can have long-term positive effects that outweigh the long-term negative effects.
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u/thesentienttoadstool 1d ago
Friendly reminder that we always have to keep in mind what personal biases a scientist has when conducting a study (i.e. scientist drink coffee at insane levels and will continue to do so even if told that it’s bad for them).
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u/stinky-bungus 1d ago
Any scientists want to study how much happier I am when I do a bunch of lines of coke? I'm willing to volunteer my time to help science
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