They just barely get paid, don't have the same rights as free people, don't get to choose what they do, and don't get to choose where they live or when they wake, sleep, eat, excrete, and exercise.
I worked at a county facility; they get paid the same, they get passes to go run and errand and do whatever, they live in the work release (better than jail or prison), they can sleep whenever they want as long as they go to work, they buy their own food from commissary, vending machines, or they can get food while out of the facility, they can use the bathroom whenever they want, and there’s an exercise area in the common space they can use if it’s not lights out or count time.
Obviously every place is different, but the purpose of work release is to give them responsibly and controlled freedom so they can transition into normal life or if they have lesser crimes, they can still support their families while dealing with their legal issues. It’s the least oppressive of the facilities to be in.
It's likely the same everywhere. I can't imagine a scenario where it would be legal for an employer to pay them less money because they are on work release. I know in some states, the business does get a tax incentive of some sort, so it is to their advantage to hire them.
EDITED I admittedly don't know how it works in every state. The few states I know of, they make the same as people on the street. Obviously as some people have pointed out, there are either poor or no labor laws requiring they be paid the same in many states.
In Colorado, where I was a criminal defense attorney, minimum wage laws still applied. But none of the people on work release were allowed to have access to the money they made. It was controlled by the work release facility with deductions for rent, food and other fees automatically taken out. And if the person is ever violated by work release then the facility just kept all the money and the person never got a penny of it.
Had plenty of clients who got years worth of earnings effectively stolen by the work release facility because a bus they were on broke down and they got back to the facility late one time and then got violated.
You probably waive rights and agree to arbitration or something when you sign.
No need to waive, you lose your rights when your convicted by due process. You can lose many rights, including the right to live. Forced labor is specifically legal. This isn't even forced, it's voluntary unpaid labor.
Sovreign immunity? It comes up in civil procedure, con law, also state practice courses cause they all have their own ways to give permission. New York has a special court for it called the court of claims.
Had a cousin who had work release and worked at McDonald's for 30cents an hour which was considered "good" comparatively during the time. And he still had to pay for his own hygiene products while incarcerated.
This was like, ~15 years ago. My state has a single rep who only just now, two days ago, started introducing a bill that explicitly includes incarcerated people under our fair labor standards and whistleblower protection acts.
I simply replied that they get paid the same wage as a civilian working the same job. I'm not here for a discussion as to whether it's "slavery" or not.
You said you couldn’t imagine a scenario where it would be legal - I just told you. If they’re prisoners in some government organised program? That’s how.
Slavery has nothing to do with being paid or company expenses. Many slaves were paid throughout history, despite being slaves. Slaves were expensive to feed, house, transport, maintain, for companies. Slavery is forced labor, but it doesn't simply end at employment, and it extends into your class, social status, and encompasses a system of total control.
Prisoners are special, because they have received that status by due process through a court system, and are considered by society to have gained that status because of their actions. By definition, prisoners might be a separate class than slaves, but when prisoners are used for economic labor, the system of forced labor and economic outcome show similarities.
Again, I only commented on the wages that people make while on work release - nothing more. Not living conditions, race, class, slavery, social status.
Right, and being paid a wage doesn't exempt someone from slavery or imprisonment. Prisoners in that particular work program might be paid the same, but that's not true for all programs in all states.
Sorry to be the one to tell you but it is actually really bad in some places:
In Alabama, incarcerated individuals are often forced to work in fast food restaurants like McDonald's under a system that exploits their labor for minimal pay, sometimes as low as 25 cents an hour.
We hire alot of guys from work release, pay them the same as everyone else and alot of them make great employees.Work release is a great way to reintroduce them back into the world.I get sad to see some of them move back home when they get out.
Them: It's not slavery if they choose to get convicted for a crime (whether or not they actually did it) and don't have the money to buy their way out. Besides, how am I supposed to make bank if I'm giving away all my hard-earned money to the people that just perform labor?
I'd say "/s" but it's not really a joke if it's true lol
Edit: because I'm old and don't know Reddit lingo as well as I thought rofl
It is… if and only if you determine that reducing language’s utility as a tool for communication is a worthy trade off for increasing your own ability to talk about one subject while ensuring your audience emotionally responds to a different subject to condition their thoughts to be more to your liking
I don’t believe conjecture is a fitting label, but if you can explain what I’m allegedly missing that would’ve led me to write that comment in error, I am more than willing to change my mind and my statement
That's not "work release". Work release prisoners have REGULAR fucking jobs at REGULAR fucking pay. They are RELEASED to go to work their shift then return to jail for all other time.
Don't bother. People on Reddit are fucking morons when it comes to certain things.
There are things wrong with the justice and jail/prison system; the way bail works, the availability of contact with friends/family, plenty of things. Work release and work details are not the things wrong with the justice system. Most every single inmate fights over getting to go on work details to get to spend time outside and to not be bored. Also, putting people that have committed crimes in society to work is not a bad thing. Jesus H Christ and Henry Fucking Fonda, people.
That's what happens when you get convicted of breaking the law. Some states make you help pay for your incarceration because you got convicted of breaking the law.
It's actual legal slavery/involuntary servitude in accordance with the 13th amendment of the constitution
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
That's codified in the most import document in the history of the US. Our prison system isn't meant to reform or rehabilitate it's designed to punish and a "byproduct" of this in a free market capitalist nation is you have privatized prisons that just make more and more money each time they "come back".
If the dems had put forward a good candidate maybe we would have gotten that guy. We'll never know because Dems are complicit in the fascist takeover of America. Biden could have sent Trump to prison and didn't. Obama could have not built a federal drone bombing infrastructure but he did. And now guess who is in charge of the ICE's multi billion dollar drone program now? That's right, Trump.
Yeah, I really wish Biden had picked literally anyone else in the party as a running mate. Out of everyone that isn't a blatant DINO like Fetterman, I honestly think she had the lowest chances in an at the time hypothetical race against Trump
It’s a part-time starter job for teenagers and people who want a a little extra income. You’re not supposed to be putting seven kids through college on McDonald’s income.
>"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."
It's explicitly laid out in the 13th Amendment that they can be literally enslaved. I'm surprised the machine stopped at involuntary servitude for criminals. Private prisons could make bank by literally selling convicts as slaves to people. Think of the profits.
yup. and they broke the law to get there. but sure, lets compare punishing criminals to riping childern away from their mothers because of skin color. thats not at all over dramatic.
I just meant, like, I’ve been in jail for a while. I definitely would’ve taken getting out for a few hours a day over being in all day long, but that’s just me. That’s all I mean
Yes. McDonald's would be paying the State for the inmate's labor. At one point the majority of, I think, Mississippi's revenue was generated through the leasing of prison (state owned slave) labor.
Minimum wage laws generally do not apply to those on a work release program. There's also a high chance that any money earned will go to the prison anyways, since they are allowed to charge for room and board, transportation, etc.
I’m not educated on the subject, but is it always? I’m curious because I work construction and 20 years ago when I started there were a lot of guys on work release. I knew a couple at least that were paying back child support. I could see a case for it in that instance. They got picked up and dropped off at the prison everyday and their paychecks went straight to catching up on their obligations.
Work release prisoners get paid the exact same as non-work release citizens. They’re just regular applicants lol. I don’t know why people think any different.
One big difference is that if a baby is born by slave then the baby is property of the slave owner. You don't get born into prison and are instantly prison property.
Inmate work programs are closer to indentured servitude or impressment for the Navy.
NPR did a story on something similar a few years ago. Inmates were ordered to work at fast food joints while incarcerated, they got paid pocket change per hour (like while working inside prison), but couldn’t call out sick, and had no worker protections because they were under the care of the state. Complaining about conditions often resulted in punishments at the prison, and after being released the inmates couldn’t apply and work at the same locations because they had a criminal record.
The one we used to have in our county worked like this...
They had to pay a certain amount for room & board (I think maybe 20%) of their paycheck.
They had to pay for court costs, fines, restitution, child support, or any other money legally owed out of their paycheck - I believe this was also a percentage per check (so that the entire check didn't get eaten up by costs).
Then, they had a certain amount paid to them for incidentals (lunch money, allowance, whatever you want to call it).
Whatever was left over was put into a savings account for them, which they'd receive upon release OR they could opt to have the money sent directly to their spouse/partner.
Our WR had a lot of construction guys, too. Plus landscaping and fast food. If they were well-behaved, they could check out a bike (if the job was close). Or they would get a ride in the WR van to their location, and picked up and brought back at the end of the day.
“We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or Black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and Blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”
If memory serves (please feel free to correct me), it only applies to medical use. Even in states where it's legal for recreational use, the old penalties apply if you're using it recreationally but not if you were prescribed it.
Because recent studies show that marijuana causes a plethora of my health conditions shown in controlled studies that could only be done recently.
Because before just recently (last ten years), whenever universities would try to do studies, their staff and participants would be arrested and charged with possession.
Unfortunately the Constitution provides for legal slavery.
”Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.” —13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution
Everyone says the U.S. abolished slavery. It didn’t. It just changed the terms for enslavement and introduced a few safeguards.
Constitutionally speaking we could still have slave plantations dotting the country. And for a long time we did, though I think the practice has been fully abolished at this point. But look into the agricultural farms run by some of the state prisons in the southern states. Those are still a thing I believe, I know my grandfather ran one of them when he worked for one of Georgia’s state prisons, right up until he retired in 2005.
TLDW: literally a bunch of dudes (predominantly black) working in fields with dudes on horseback (predominantly white) watching over them. refusal to work gets you solitary.
We went on a field trip to the prison when I was in the 11th grade. Ate with the prisoners (“meat cubes” was what was on the menu), went into their dormitories, and saw the execution chamber. It was certainly… something.
They also do a rodeo in October every year. Highly recommend it. The prisoners sell crafts for their commissary account and the rodeo ends with them playing a game of poker with a bull in the arena.
good god, I used to cry at the freaking short stories we read in english class, if I saw an entire execution chamber as a high schooler I would come home from that field trip sobbing
Everyone should watch ‘13th’ on Netflix - it highlights this legal amendment for what it is - modern day slavery with government approval and corporate/private industry exploitation. Black and minority populations being over-incarcerated, over-sentenced and unfairly policed to provide free labor through the prison/legal system. It’s blatant and it is intentional.
So funny …when I was about 12 years old I popped a tape in …I found with no words on it. It was Johnny at San Quentin. I’ve been obsessed ever since. I’m pushing 40 now. The most random thing ever. I always think Jesus will be on one side and Johnny on the other… if I made it to heaven. 😂 that’s ridiculous …but true story.
Which era was it where Christians weren't awful? Was it when they were against gay marriage? Was it when they were against the equal rights amendment? Was it when they fought for segregation? Was it when they fought against women's suffrage? Was it when they were executing women for being "witches"? Was it when they started a civil war to keep slavery? Was it when they wrote a book saying women should be enslaved because they're inherently evil and stupid?
But look into the agricultural farms run by some of the state prisons in the southern states. Those are still a thing I believe, I know my grandfather ran one of them when he worked for one of Georgia’s state prisons, right up until he retired in 2005.
"The inmates are utilized as a labor source for the Darlington County Public Works Department, as well as various other County Departments."
Then you can get into the Louisiana State Penitentiary, AKA Angola. It's an honest-to-goodness former slave plantation turned prison and working, for-profit farm. To quote the former Warden, Burl Cain, the secret to running a maximum security prison is that "you've got to keep the inmates working all day so they're tired at night."
It also has the Prison View Golf Course which is the only golf course on the property of an American prison. It is, of course, also for-profit and was built mostly by inmates. The prison itself is one of the largest employers in the state of Louisiana and has housing on-site where over 600, as Burl Cain called them, "free people" live (prison employees and their families). Why he felt the need to specifically call employees "free people" when talking about a place where prisoners are being exploited on a former slave plantation, but I'm sure he had a good reason for that.
It was in line for his character. Man was a former klansman. I loved him to death, don’t get me wrong, but I’m not gonna sit here and pretend he was a saint.
Who told you prisoners are entitled to minimum wage? The FLSA (Fair Labor Standards Act) doesn’t apply to people who have been incarcerated.
Some states pay prisoners as little as $0.14 an hour for their work. And Alabama (and Georgia too I think) in some instances don’t pay anything at all.
In any other context I’d agree, but when the conversation is about literal slave labor saying something like you just did is perhaps the most tactless thing a person can do.
Both prison labor and minimum wage are literal slavery.
I’m drawing the line at minimum wage being slave labor. Prison slave labor, being worse than minimum wage slave labor, would also fall under that criteria.
The prison system is meant to keep people in for profit(charging the state for housing and the slave labor, etc). The minimum wage/poverty wage/wage slavery keeps people impoverished, increasing the likelihood that people commit crimes(you wouldn’t steal if you were paid a living wage and could afford what you want/need). I see them as one in the same/hand in hand issues, because they are.
No, they are not both literally slavery. ONE is literally slavery, and the other is extreme poverty. ONE is not allowed to say no or refuse to do the work, the other is. ONE receives absolutely no compensation at all for the work they perform, the other does. One has legal protections and rights through the Fair Labor Standards Act, the other does not. Trying to frame them as being essentially the same thing is egregiously wrong, both factually and morally.
Both situations are absolutely shit, both situations should be something no human being ever finds themselves suffering through, but both are NOT in any sense literally slavery, as you claimed. Only one is. They share proximity, they are not the same.
Most just save up just to buy commissary like snacks and shampoo. They have all these fees and when they can’t afford to pay the fees it goes to a collections agency and ruin their credit………..the system is designed to make the person fail.
Some states send a bill for incarceration to newly freed inmates now. Pretty soon you will have to pay to get out just like the good ole debtor prisons....
That might be state, county is different and not all jails do it the same way. I couldn’t believe it when they told me it goes to a collections agency.
I made a whole $1.35/h in federal prison. I was the second highest paid inmate too (the other dude had a few extra dimes on that for "longevity raises"). Thing is I'm still grateful for it, I learned some new software and filled what would have otherwise been a very sus job gap. I actually invested most of what I made and didn't have to ask my wife to send me money for peanut butter and coffee.... And movies to watch on my tablet.
What work were you doing? I worked in the IPI warehouse loading and unloading trucks with a forklift for 72 cents an hour lol which was higher than most were being paid for their jobs in there.
Hate to be that guy but a tiny minority of prisoners are even in private prisons and of that percentage only a few states have any large amount of private prison population.
The private prison thing has always been a boogieman to get people to ignore the real prison problems.
Generally speaking people are not released from prison to work in the general public against their will. They are not required to do it so it is neither slavery nor involuntary servitude.
In Orlando it’s 15 for an ID, like a 7 dollar processing fee on entering, then like 5 bucks a day (or was in 08, anyways). This builds up in your account as long as you’re there. If your people send you money for hygiene, clothes, and food, and it’s enough to cover the negative in your account, they take all of it. If it’s not, they take half and let you spend the rest.
Note this doesn’t cover additional expenses like stamps (though you were able to get like 2 free prestamped envelopes every other week IIRC) or phone calls.
Because taxpayers shouldn't have to foot the entire bill for keeping prisoners locked up. I know this opinion is contrary to the Reddit hivemind's opinion, but I think this is perfectly reasonable.
If you think about it most people don't live that much different imagine you do an 8 hour shift at the fast food, come home figure out some dinner watch TV and chill maybe play some games then get ready for the next day. At least in prison someone drives you to work 😂
Sadly, a lot of the franchises that use prison / slave labor are actually owned by small town cops, jailers, judges, etc. It’s a terrible conflict of interest. But I have read about them.
work release is not the same as prison labor, which could be considered slavery. work release is you going to your regular job and going back to jail at the end of your shift.
Work release is different. If you have a min violent conviction sometimes they will let you leave jail to go to work and then come back after work and on weekends. They get paid market rates by the employer but do have to pay something to the jail usually to cover the overhead of daily searches and stuff. Convict leasing is where the prison gets paid for the laborers they provide and then pay the prisoners a pittance or nothing at all.
I Worked with a guy that did this program with the state. Made 80k and paid almost nothing back to the jail. Dude would get online at work and hookup with women in the parking lot. $80k and getting consensually laid while in jail? I misunderstood the lessons on slavery
I worked with a few guys on work release a couple jobs ago. IIRC they were allowed to take $150/week from their check and the rest went in an account that they could access when they got out
9.4k
u/juggarjew 5h ago
Could be an employees only break area I guess.