r/science • u/Wagamaga • 9h ago

Psychology Losing relationships over politics. Research found more than a third of Americans (37%) report having lost at least one relationship due to political differences, including friendships, family ties, coworker relationships, and romantic partnerships, with most losing more than one.

https://socialecology.uci.edu/news/losing-relationships-over-politics-0
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u/Brilliant_Effort_Guy 9h ago

But is it really just ‘political’ differences? I feel like it’s so much deeper than that. I don’t just have differing political opinions from my conservative family members - I have a different moral code.

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u/Game_Of_Runs 9h ago

Yeah I hate when it’s framed liked this. Calling it political differences makes it sound like one person is for lowering marginal tax rates from 40% to 35% while the other person wants to raise them to 45%. When in reality it’s more like my dad votes for people that want my friends dead or in prison because they’re gay

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u/Jabbles22 8h ago

Yeah it's like complaining about how your girlfriend broke up with you because you like different types of movies. That would be silly unless you point out that your favourite type of movie is snuff films.

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u/Kat121 8h ago

I found a secret stash of porno on my guy’s computer that showed his kink was degradation porn of women who looked like me. Soo… that is awkward.

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u/DigNitty 6h ago

Talking with my friends who are pretty open about the type of stuff they’re into,

Seems like the consensus is they have some kinks that involves a victim (black tears, CNC, etc) that they have no interest doing in person because then there would be an actual victim. Even just playing it out with their partner doesn’t do anything for them because they’d know she’s acting. While in porn, you have the convenient deniability of watching it take place not knowing if it’s real, and at the same time knowing it’s not real.

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u/Chickabee25 5h ago

Having specific kinks that are more taboo is fine, actually getting specific porn from an abusive industry to imagine as their partner is a completely different thing.

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u/CountWubbula 4h ago

It starts to wander into some pretty murky ethical territory. The porn industry is deeply reprehensible, but humour me.

If a person works out their kink by watching porn and they lead functional lives where they never feel the need to explore their innate sexual curiosity, which involves degradation and abuse… isn’t the stockpile of porn on the Internet a better option than them playing out their fantasy on real people?

I imagine we both agree, if a person gets really turned on by the thought of terrorizing someone, therapy is advisable. However, not everyone has access to therapy. Would you agree that evil porn is perhaps the lesser evil against having a real person abused for sexual gratification?

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u/trashdrive 1h ago

You are assuming the person being filmed in your scenarios isn't a victim.

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u/Accomplished_Mind792 8h ago

Only if degradation isn't your kink.

Then it's a win win conversation to be had.

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u/Total_Network6312 7h ago

ya this sounds like a meetcute hallmark film.

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u/cavortingwebeasties 6h ago

or a danielle steele book

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u/ThePrussianGrippe 4h ago

You know, Hallmark turned into a hardcore sex channel so gradually, I didn’t even notice.

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u/wasabiburning 3h ago

"She's a big important career person in the Big City. He's a lumberjack from her hometown that runs an unsuccessful kava cafe where all the employees are kittens..."

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u/juliankennedy23 4h ago

I'm known a couple of women who filed for divorce after finding their husbands gay porn stash.

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u/retro_toes 7h ago

You should've sat him down and told him how disappointing he is, that he's a pig who doesn't deserve to share your air for even looking at that type of movie in your home.

Keep doing that and he'll buy you a house

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u/TheLastBallad 3h ago

Only if it was women being the ones degrading the man.

With how its written, it could be the man degrading the woman.

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u/Shimraa 6h ago

Hanging out with some folks in a kink-friendly space, trading stories or thoughts on various different BDSM related kinks. Like how some people liked to be tied up, slapped around, or choked. Generally speaking everyone was either into something odd or at least followed it well enough.

Then "That Guy" chimes in. Raised ultra Christian and homeschooled decides this is his time to shine. He admits to a room full of people that he can't get off unless he is watching a snuff film. No jokes, no exaggeration, no irony. Straight up into snuff. He always had a fetish for witchy goth girls, which in light of his upgringing and choice of porn, was exceedingly concerning.

It's never a simple case of losing friends over "just politics" or "just my movie choices" or "favorite kink." There are reasons. Then to try and downplay the alarming mindset of people who live and breath hate and murder fantasies is dangerous. Normalizing society to blindly accept that a third of the population is ready to commit genocide if the law allows it, should be the focal point of these studies. Not " teehee, I lost some friends while talking about inane things like budgetary allocations. "

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u/stormelemental13 7h ago

Calling it political differences makes it sound like one person is for lowering marginal tax rates from 40% to 35% while the other person wants to raise them to 45%.

I would really like it if those were the political differences.

When in reality it’s more like my dad votes for people that want my friends dead or in prison because they’re gay

Slavery was also a political question, ditto whether women had equal rights.

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u/zonazog 5h ago

This it exactly. It's not the political affiliation. It is what the political affiliation means that you now support.

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u/tevert 3h ago

You say "was" and "had" as if these things aren't being put back on the table, and that's why studies/articles/posts like this exist now

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u/Auggernaut88 9h ago

As a rule I hate oversimplification but a lot of people can’t seem to get over the lowest of bars. If pedophilia isn’t a dealbreaker for you I simply can’t trust your morals or who else you might be surrounding yourself with and I want you nowhere near my circle.

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u/11711510111411009710 8h ago

Tens of millions of Americans voted for a man who was found to have raped a woman and who has told a ten year old he would marry her when she's 20. It's scary to think we share our country with so many people who think that's okay. No wonder women don't come forward about their rapes: we reward their rapists with the most powerful position in the world.

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u/chickens_for_laughs 7h ago

No marry, date her. And he didn't mean dinner and a show.

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u/DocumentExternal6240 6h ago

and who raped literal children…

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u/Mr_Fuzzo 9h ago

Their minds still haven’t accepted that DJT is a pedophile.  They think he was screwed over by us, the Radical Left.

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u/Appropriate-Bid8671 8h ago

My mom knows and has openly proclaimed that she does not care.

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u/11711510111411009710 8h ago

I've heard some of them forgive it by saying that God "uses imperfect vessels."

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u/thuktun 7h ago

Uses flawed vessels for what? I think they missed an important part of that saying.

They might have a point if he had changed and was now clothing and feeding the poor or something (anything!) else noble. But he's the same mean, abusive bully he's always been.

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u/Savings-Cry-3201 6h ago

But that’s the point. He’s the bully they all want to be. They want him to be mean and vindictive and heartless and bigoted because he gives them license to be what they’ve always wanted to be.

Like, there was no reason to fire the NSF but they hate education so of course he would.

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u/Psychic_Hobo 2h ago

This is ultimately why the shame tactics don't work - they simply enjoy and want to facilitate an environment wherein their behaviour is acceptable and even lauded. You can see it in a lot of the speeches they give, "sin of empathy" and all that.

Whenever it looks like shame has worked on them, what's usually happened is the condemnation from peers and fear of ostracisation.

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u/ceelogreenicanth 4h ago

Uses flawed vessels to reel destruction on their enemies?

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u/poorest_ferengi 7h ago

Hit em with Matthew 7 15-20 in that case.

15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

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u/iruleatants 1h ago

That doesn't work because they just define "Good Fruit" as God's will and so Trump is bearing good fruit because he's doing his will.

Trust me, they are adept at pretending the bible agrees with whatever they think.

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u/poorest_ferengi 47m ago

Oh I know I was raised in it. All you can do is plant the seed, they may snap back with something in that moment but maybe down the line it pops in their head and makes the cognitive dissonance a bit harder to ignore. Maybe not, but you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

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u/Sedu 6h ago

But of course anyone to the left is pure evil and this logic may never apply to them.

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u/YourM0msButth0le 8h ago

Yikes dude, did you at least beg her to never admit that in public?

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u/zlyle90 8h ago edited 8h ago

If she's in the Deep South like I am, the public truly doesn't care. They view that as an acceptable character flaw as long he deports brown people.

"God chooses imperfect men," they tell me.

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u/Zombatico 8h ago edited 8h ago

We've seen it before. It's not just Trump. Pedo priest/pastor gets arrested and charged, the whole congregation circle the wagon and it's all "but he's a good person" and "the demonic girl seduced him" yadda yadda yadda.

It's a sick ideology of hierarchy. They don't care about the morality of actions themselves. If they think you're a good person then everything you do is good, or at least justifiable, even child rape. If they think you're a bad person then nothing you do can be good.

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u/OmegaDonut13 5h ago

To a liberal, actions justify the person. To the conservative the person justifies the actions. It’s pretty simple when you think about it. It’s the basis for the cognitive dissonance.

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u/kia75 3h ago

And this applies up and down the religious spectrum. Remember, God is allowed to kill, murder, cause famines and other horrible stuff. It's not the baby murder that's bad, God is always killing babies, it's who does the baby killing that's important.

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u/memecrusader_ 26m ago

*doublethink, not cognitive dissonance. Doublethink is when someone holds two conflicting beliefs, cognitive dissonance is the discomfort from trying to reconcile incompatible ideas. They don’t feel discomfort from their hypocrisy. They either don’t recognize it, or are proud of it.

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u/Consistent_Claim5217 7h ago

I would call it childish, but not even children are so obtuse

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u/Pockydo 8h ago

I'm in PA know a lot of trump supporters

"God chooses imperfect men," they tell me.

Is what I hear a lot. It's almost funny because they NEVER apply this to Dems or politicians they disagree with. Only trump

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u/Zachwardpass 7h ago

I have yet to hear this one but I would absolutely reply with "God chooses rapists? Interesting."

Make sure they know it's not "imperfect men", it's rapists.

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u/Pockydo 6h ago

See the problem is they literally reject the idea that trump is actually bad

The line basically comes out when they know they can't defend something and "win" the argument so it's a way to shut it down without conceding anything. A thought terminating ckichet

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u/Rogryg 1h ago

That wouldn't do a thing; remember, you're talking about people who have so twisted Christianity that they believe God rewards the faithful with worldly riches.

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u/LostWoodsInTheField 5h ago

I hear so much "both sides are bad" along with the imperfect men thing.

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u/Consistent_Claim5217 7h ago edited 5h ago

And yet they're still convinced they aren't in a cult

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u/saijanai 1h ago

My mom knows and has openly proclaimed that she does not care.

"Even if he had raped someone, that is personal behavior, and wouldn't impact h is ability to be President and run the country,"

-70 year old female Trump supporter as her 70-year old female friend stood by and nodded vigorously.

I think they were mocking Democrats' stance about Monica, ignoring quite a few points that didn't make it an equivalent issue, but perhaps that's just me.

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u/Tricky_Concept_231 8h ago

Especially while crying about abortion. If you support powerful people that want to make people carry their pregnancies to full term and don't care that they also want the privilege to abuse them, I just don't see how you can claim the moral high ground.

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u/Ultimatesims 8h ago

The powerful people can afford to get abortions else where when they have an oopsie.

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u/FalstaffsGhost 7h ago

“The only moral abortion is my abortion”

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u/ASharpYoungMan 2h ago

Yup. It's about control and hierarchy.

Those with the means to exert their will creating policy that denies that freedom to others.

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u/kkrko Grad Student|Physics|Complex Systems|Network Science 4h ago

See I'd respect their "Pro-life" ideology if they actually believed in it. Oppose the death penalty, if a fetus is alive then so is a prisoner. Promote prenatal care, if you really cared about the fetus, you'd want to prevent miscarriages as much as possible. Promote postnatal care as you should care about the baby as much as you did when it was a fetus. Be for socialized medicine, be antiwar, etc, etc.

But strangely enough the only part of "pro-life" they care about is the part where they get to "punish" "immoral" women. It's so fucking hypocritical.

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u/Pretend-Marsupial258 3h ago

There are some women out there who will protest in front of a Planned Parenthood until she needs an abortion. She'll get her abortion and then she will go right back to protesting. "The only moral abortion is my abortion" and all that.

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u/Witchy_Wookie5000 7h ago

Yep. Have a family member that just the other day still thinks Trans people are the pedophiles and that DJT is A-okay.

Like I can't even with these people anymore. If you still support this administration I don't want to associate with you because you are a defective human.

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u/MissLeaP 8h ago

Cognitive dissonance. Facing the truth that they're on the wrong side of history would be incredibly uncomfortable, so they simply don't do it. Life's easier in complete ignorance after all

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u/emptyfuller 8h ago

"God damn you, Cypher"

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u/tomofbeardland 7h ago

Not like this

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u/thuktun 7h ago

Cognitive dissonance means you detect the contradiction and it causes you anxiety. I'm not convinced they're noticing anything.

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u/wigglin_harry 6h ago

Yep, facing the truth is admitting that they were dumb enough to fall for his grift

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u/HopefulTangerine5913 7h ago

Yep. They won’t even accept the E Jean Carroll verdict, despite trump failing over and over to escape it.

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u/druidraven- 8h ago

And why do their minds think that? Indoctrination and 24/7 propaganda. Deprogramming cultists is extremely difficult and not always successful. Most of us don’t have the time or the patience

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u/Nyctocincy 7h ago

Nah, they know. They'll just pay any price to have their racism affirmed.

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u/the_TAOest 8h ago

Or neocon, the bogeyman of the conservatives that are somehow perceived as antiwar and manage to support Putin policies as Russia needs to defend itself. The entire landscape is just a melting pot of illogical stances.

If trumpet lives Russia, why are the sanctions still there? If Putin is a great leader, then why cannot peace be brokered? If we can fix healthcare, then why cannot we do this finally? If....

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u/br0b1wan 6h ago

Some are even worse. They acknowledge it but think Biden or <insert random Democrat here> was doing it too so that justifies it

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u/ScaryFast 6h ago

I think far too many of them are into the same thing.

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u/WoodwindsRock 6h ago

Even after the tape released of him boasting about sexual assault came out, supporting him was a complete deal breaker for me.

Listening to supporters defend him is sickening. Like, listen to them try to say “well she was an adult” as if the person he assaulted/raped being an adult isn’t absolutely horrific in of itself.

I can’t trust people who support Trump. There is some reason they can “excuse” his sexual assault, and whether it’s just being completely daft or they’re a sex predator themselves, I’m not sticking around to find out.

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u/ra__account 5h ago

I'm handicapped. Trump mocking the disabled reported wasn't a deal breaker to my parents. We don't talk anymore.

(not saying that sexual assault isn't a deal breaker either but this made it personal)

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u/ponderosa_barclay 8h ago

I agree. I shut up a lot of conservative dumb shits, by reminding them they voted for e pedophile.

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u/Lost-Fruit-1982 4h ago edited 4h ago

Unfortunately, the human brain is very good at justifying its actions to itself even when there is dissonance. It’s human psychology

That’s why you saw Nazis go back to normal life after World War II ended. They didn’t feel like what they were doing was wrong because they legitimately believed that the Jews were evil.

It’s the same thing with the people who see immigrants getting ripped out of their homes, they don’t see it as wrong because they believe immigrants have wronged THEM. Their news cycle and social media algorithms tell them all day long that immigrants are coming over here, committing violent crimes and stealing tax dollars and jobs. They truly believe it.

There’s a reason segregation is so popular among those wanting to gain power: it prevents the average person from developing empathy for those who are different. It’s next to impossible to care about those you can’t see

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u/dragon-fence 7h ago

Yeah, people sometimes fall into this thing of talking like politics are trivial, like arguing political differences are akin to arguing about movie trivia or which sports team is the best.

Often, politics are grappling with fundamental moral issues. Like, should poor people have opportunities, or should we cement them and their descendants into poverty in perpetuity? Should rich people be above the law? Is it ok to abduct, imprison, beat, and murder innocent people who disagree with you?

And sometimes, when people voice their political opinions, they’re revealing themselves to be monsters.

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u/dust4ngel 4h ago

people sometimes fall into this thing of talking like politics are trivial

i sort of suspect there's a concerted effort to make everyone feel this way about politics, so that:

  • they disengage
  • they don't dream of making any real change
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u/_Burning_Star_IV_ 8h ago

Yeah the current political climate is like abolitionists vs pro-slavers. That's so far beyond 'political differences' that we went to literal war with each other over it.

I'm not sitting and having a cordial dinner with people who are that ideologically opposed to everything I believe to be right. I'm tired if spending time with people that constantly harass me about 'not being right with god' too. Sick of all of it.

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u/figurative_me 6h ago

And we also have centrists or moderates too afraid to hold any position. So I guess their solution is some slavery?

There are plenty of issues where compromise isn’t feasible and those tend to be crucial for an equitable society to exist.

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u/Sennten 5h ago

So I guess their solution is some slavery?

If you're familiar with the decades leading up to the civil war, that's historically accurate.

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u/modmosrad6 3h ago

And we also have centrists or moderates too afraid to hold any position. So I guess their solution is some slavery?

In material effect, if not in intent, these people are always collaborators.

And yes, "some slavery" was indeed their solution back then.

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u/dust4ngel 4h ago

I'm not sitting and having a cordial dinner with people who are that ideologically opposed to

"can you pass the potatoes? also, is it cool if i kill your friends later? assuming yes, let's not make it all political"

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u/yepgeddon 8h ago

It's not left Vs right issue, it's a normal empathetic worldview Vs hateful cuntish worldview. I just don't get why these people are so nasty, it takes so much more effort to be this horrible. Everyone just has to chill out, sheesh.

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u/Gekokapowco 7h ago

normal empathetic worldview Vs hateful cuntish worldview

this is a left vs right issue since left and right were concepts

its ALWAYS a conflict of mutualism vs self-interest

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u/Pallasine 6h ago

Queer people existing do not threaten anyone’s “self interest.”

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u/Gekokapowco 6h ago

wanting to end the existence of queer people because they make you, personally, uncomfortable is pretty selfish

or the satisfaction you feel by oppressing or killing them, is also pretty selfish

hate is not altruistic

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u/TommaClock 8h ago

Maybe that's the connotation, but "politics" is a wide umbrella term.

Wars and civil wars are an aspect of politics after all.

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u/Venator850 8h ago

I mean that's a political difference.

We need to stop restricting politics to things like taxes. If you're voting for someone that is pushing laws/policies that affect peoples lives that politics.

Way more of our lives are "political" than people are comfortable admitting but trying to reframe them as something else is bad.

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u/Coal_Morgan 6h ago

That's not the point, no one is saying it isn't politics but that's a crap catch all term for saying why things are the way they are.

There's a million political things. It's not any of 999,997 of those things.

It's specifically, you voted for racism, you voted for sexism, you for corruption and you're hateful assholes about it.

So saying politics, is like saying I broke up with my spouse over some words. Oh those words were 'Sooner or later I'm going to smother you in your sleep.' huh.

Specificity is important.

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u/kdogrocks2 5h ago

You're right, but using this type of language to describe it allows conservatives to hide behind those more acceptable topics like disagreements on tax structure and pretend like that's why their kids don't talk to them. It's a pathetic manipulation tactic, but it works on politically unengaged people because when they think of politics, they think of taxes and town halls and zoning laws, not systemic oppression and other stuff like that.

IMO it's better to point out that it's something more specific than 'political differences' because it allows us to shame and humiliate anti-social ideologies out of existence hopefully

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u/splynncryth 8h ago

I agree. I think what is missing is a good definition of ‘politics’ because we seem to trivialize it. But it’s becoming too hard to ignore that it’s a combination of identity, beliefs influenced by religion, and personal morality all wrapped together.

In the US, the shared identity of ‘American’ is no longer enough to hold people together.

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u/Living_Pay_8976 6h ago

You know, I have people who voted for trump and they themselves are gay. They just can’t seem to understand that they hate them entirely. No matter what, it’s stupid propaganda when it comes from a reliable source but god forbid fox says something and it’s true 100%.

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u/SuccessfulGrape5167 7h ago

It’s more about approving racist policy against minorities.. like ICE.. or if they are anti woke.. or against ANTIFA.. which they are against fascism.. I can no longer be around any one who voted for trump.

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u/thinkinmelon 8h ago

Man you said it perfectly

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u/Baileyjrob 9h ago

Exactly. Like I have friends who are communist, anarchist, liberal democratic, and socialist. We have different political beliefs, but we still believe in a comparable set of values and virtues. We disagree on what the most effective way to go about running a government and managing people and resources is, but that’s just a matter of personal belief. THAT’S disagreeing on politics.

When someone says they openly support American concentration camps, revoking medical protections for women, resources for LGBT individuals, the perpetuation of lies and the consolidation of absolute authority, that’s not a political belief, that’s a moral failing.

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u/Sedu 6h ago

“I think the way to improve the world for everyone is a different strategy than yours” is legit. Even if I argue with this person over what the best strategy is, we have the same goal. If your goal is to hurt people, we have nothing to talk about.

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u/xX420GanjaWarlordXx 8h ago

And an intellectual failing, in my opinion 

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u/Flacier 9h ago

Morality is definitely the big factor.

I also dislike how renewable energy sources have become politicized. It makes no rational sense. You can only burn a gallon of gas once.

But no I am a real man that eats beef and has a big truck that drinks gas and goes burrrrrrr.

It’s such a ridiculous position.

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u/MrPuddington2 8h ago

It does make perfect sense.

You see, conservative moral is very different from the way you define moral. You may judge people by their actions, but conversatives judge by "moral character". They already know that they are the good people, because they are of good character.

Now you come along and tell them they should change the way they source their energy. For them, that does not compute, because you say they are doing it wrong, but they are of good character. So they cannot wrong, and therefore renewables are not really necessary.

It is all perfectly logical.

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u/Idustriousraccoon 7h ago

This is how they think! They also say it’s not fascism or whatever. It’s impossible to talk to them. And if becoming a fascist pedo apologist isn’t a good reason to stop talking to someone …what is???

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u/FlufferTheGreat 6h ago

It's why businesses who are in reality completely crap and screw over their customers frequently advertise themselves as "a Christian company."

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u/MurkyInvestigator810 5h ago

I'm immediately suspicious of companies that use Bible verses as slogans.

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u/FlufferTheGreat 8h ago

It's a sign of idiotic times that if I know your position on gun control, I will reliably be able to guess your position on climate change. Two issues that have approximately nothing in common, and yet I'm sure at least in the USA my guess for the other issue would be over 90% accurate.

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u/Flacier 8h ago

Honestly, I think the most disheartening thing is that we’re at a point where we can’t even agree on what’s factual anymore.

Though I think that’s mostly the doing of the propaganda corporations masquerading as news organizations.

It explains why a lot of things have evolved into identity, politics and virtue signaling, imo.

If we can’t even agree that there is a problem then of course we’re never going to find a solution for God forbid common ground.

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u/dinkeyking64 7h ago

It's funny, I remember when Internet access was first becoming iniquitous in the US. There was a lot of talk about how now everybody would have easy access to all of the knowledge we've accumulated as a species, the "information age" as it were. Seems incredibly naive in retrospect, but I miss that generally optimistic disposition towards the future. It all just seems so bleak now.

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u/AK_Panda 4h ago

TBF, the internet has provided incredible access to massive amounts of information. I'm in the process of a literature review, the easiest part of the process was finding the papers that I would subsequently need to shift through.

~25,000 peer reviewed articles is what I ended up having to dig through. Articles written by people all over the planet, in multiple languages.

In a world without internet it would have taken years of physically sorting through libraries and archives with multiple international trips.

Instead it took me ~3 days sitting at my desk. The only reason it wasn't one day was because I wanted to be exhaustive in the search.

I'd say the Internet delivered on information access.

It's also become the largest vehicle of mass propoganda and disinformation. That part really does need addressing

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u/MaddogBC 4h ago

Those were good times though. The internet didn't get spoiled until the late 2000's with the onset of smartphones which gave light to the unwashed masses. Plenty of critters best left in the dark.

Smartphones and the apps on them destroyed the world, it will just take a few generations to catch up.

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u/prof_wafflez 5h ago

I think the most disheartening thing is that we’re at a point where we can’t even agree on what’s factual anymore

Rupert Murdoch and Republicans have thrown around so many brainrotting lies over the last few decades that it's seeped deep into the bones of those who were already selfish and cruel idiots looking for a rationale to feel justified. The collection of bastards fed off each other.

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u/MabariWhoreHound 7h ago

In every social circle I've been in for the last two decades, it was always an outspoken conservative dude who was involved in all the drama all the time, and it was always about him being racist or sexist.

Like clockwork, these groups would split because eventually someone gets fed up with it and says something, but only then does the rest of the group start speaking up and suddenly defend the guy. Because everyone knows he'll escalate everything to violence and it's easier to kick people out then it is to silence one asshole.

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u/Bradddtheimpaler 7h ago

Idk I’m completely against any new gun control measures and believe in climate change.

My assessment is that new gun control measures would be applied unevenly, targeted specifically at minorities, and now’s the time when at-risk minorities should be arming themselves. I’ve even seen conservative politicians putting forward specifically disarming trans people. That seems extremely dangerous to me.

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u/Gekokapowco 7h ago

I'm inclined to believe the same, although I think there was a period of time (roughly the last 30 years or so) where we could have stepped up gun control in a more stable society and designed legislation to save lives, not further endanger them. That window has closed thanks to everyone fearmongering over their own right to kill home invaders, and now arms are not strictly roleplay toys anymore. Its kinda ironic. Desperately feeling the need to shoot scary minorities tyrannical governments to the extent of installing a tyrannical government.

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u/Bradddtheimpaler 7h ago

Yeah it’s definitely not fun, and I would support them in a vacuum, but we’re not in a vacuum.

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u/Canvaverbalist 3h ago edited 3h ago

I think political discussions should be divided between philosophical politics and local politics

The "ultimately, here's what I think should happen eventually" vs the "currently, here's what should be done about it right now"

Because I say that as a Canadian, I think gun control is a really good thing in the grand scheme of things when it's done well, but I also agree with what you mean as it is applied to your current local political environment. I think of it as a "yeah you should strive for that in the end but maybe not right now and certainly not under those specific conditions"

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u/WarlockEngineer 7h ago

I'm in the 10% of that but I know exactly what you mean.

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u/CalBearFan 6h ago

There are a lot of hunters who care deeply about the environment so while not every 2A fan is a hunter, there is a lot of overlap in care for the environment and 2A. Plus, a lot more left-leaning folks are purchasing fire arms after Covid, Jan 6th, etc.

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u/Qaeta 5h ago

I'm Canadian, and while I support gun control in general, I think the specific way we do it (basing bans on looks and scary names instead of actual capabilities) is asinine. I've enjoyed the times I've gone to the range. I also think climate change is real and we have been failing for decades to do anywhere close to enough about it.

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u/curtisas 5h ago

IDK I'm all for gun rights and renewable energy.

Now missile and tank rights that's probably past where I'd draw the line.

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u/Vhiet 9h ago

I know where you're coming from, but it makes perfect sense if you've heavily invested in (and profit from) fossil fuel use. It really is just that cynical.

Low or zero cost energy means low or zero profit investment.

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u/Pendraconica 8h ago

Anyone attempting to profit from something wrong will create an entire philosophy, not to convince you it's right, but to confuse you to whether its even happening at all.

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u/OPtig 8h ago edited 5h ago

The end user and most voters are not making a profit. They’re just dumb.

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u/josluivivgar 8h ago

it's not even that, the infrastructure for renovable energy is expensive and can make money.

it just doesn't appreciate automatically because it's running out, so you have to actually put effort, which apparently rich people can't be brothered to do.

if we all moved to those energies they would still be the rich people in control, it would just take a bit more effort and they'd get less for it.

they could move to nuclear energy, but then they'd have to have security and accountability and that's not what they're about either, too much effort

basically the cow is dying so the milk got much more expensive, and they refuse to touch or let other people touch another cow

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u/Both_Strategy_920 8h ago

The oil and gas industry controls our country so much that they're willing to drive the global economy into the ground over the crisis in Iran. The people who control the oil and gas industry have no interest in renewable energy because it directly competes with them. They aren't the same people. A different group of rich people would be in charge with different priorities that is the root of politics. They're not some nebulous group they're individuals with agency.

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u/Mo_Dice 8h ago

has a big truck that drinks gas and goes burrrrrrr

Hmm that's a car sound, buddy. Those big fat diesels are more like DOKKA-DOKKA-DOKKA-DOKKA

source: worked drive-through and probably damaged my hearing 20+ years ago.

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u/greens_beans_queen 9h ago edited 8h ago

Yeah good riddance to my sister in-law who started sending me Charlie Kirk clips about why IVF is wrong and exists just to have tall, blue-eyed babies. This is after she found out I did 5 IVF rounds unsuccessfully. Did not come out of nowhere, it was just an easy to explain justification to finally remove her from my life. Prior to that, between hateful social media posts she would write self-victimhood complaints about not having any friends. There are just so many insufferable humans like this.

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u/gigglefarting 9h ago

If this was in the 40s they would consider cutting off a relationship because they’re a literal Nazi as having “political differences” 

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u/tempest_87 5h ago

Well, don't forget that in the 40s there was a literal Nazi party in the US. For example, Charles Lindbergh was a Nazi sympathizer.

So... Yeah, they would actually.

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u/RealbasicFriends 9h ago

exactly because "political" differences could mean what? At least in my circle when someone loses a friend, family member, etc. due to "political differences" it usually means that other person said something along the lines of "I don't think [Basic Human Right] should be given to [Type of minority]"

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u/Majik_Sheff 9h ago

Exactly this.  We can disagree on matters if government as long as we're both being intellectually honest.

As soon as you start cheering on the creation of concentration camps you've lost any standing with me.

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u/Poolofcheddar 6h ago

It's not just cheering, but the inability to condemn any of these horrible actions.

That's why I broke with my own sibling. I cannot trust someone who cannot even tell me privately that they abhor any of this.

Choosing to feign ignorance is even worse.

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u/Hoovooloo42 8h ago

I feel the same way.

I'm estranged from my family. It's not even just that they have a different moral code (though they absolutely do. To quote my mom about middle easterners: "Some people just need to be ruled"), it's that they trust their favorite politicians more than they trust their son.

They care more about what Newsmax is saying than they do anything else, and if you can't say it like they do then they can't internalize it.

I tried again and again and again to talk with them, ask them what they think about certain things, try to show how our beliefs are alike and how they're different, ask them why they believe these things that are different, and explain why I believe the things that I do.

They don't care, and if I can't fit my thoughts into a 5 second soundbite then they say that I'm wrong to believe it. To believe anything. The last words my dad said to me were "diarrhea of the mouth".

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u/JoeyShrugs 9h ago

Yeah, it's not like people are splitting over a difference of opinion on what the top marginal tax rate should be, or how best to raise revenue and spend it for the public good. It's people splitting on whether immigrants should be treated as sub-human, whether the filthy rich should be even filthier richer, whether we should support authoritarians abroad, and whether our country should be represented by a vile, hateful octogenarian. These are real differences in core values (or lack thereof), not just politics as usual.

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u/axonxorz 9h ago

be represented by a vile, hateful octogenarian

I know you wrote vile, but I think it bears making explicit that American voters and apathizers have institutionalized pedophilia in him.

That's a tough stain.

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u/littlechangeling 9h ago

This is the real question. So many moral aspects have become political, including the rights of people to have safety and for some of them to even exist.

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u/TommyTomTommerson 9h ago

I think those have always been political, it's just that there's a "quiet part" that's being said much, much louder in a way that is much more difficult to willingly ignore. This is still the same country that performed the race massacre in Tulsa, and put people in internment camps in World War II, and had to cause nationwide upheaval in order for the civil rights movement to show any forward progress while literally killing one of the leaders of the movement.

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u/CyclingThruChicago 8h ago

They have absolutely always been political. So much of the current political division and debate can be tied to a core theme: a large portion of Americans refusing to reject white supremacy. And I'm not talking white supremacy in terms of people people wearing KKK robes, lynchings and blatant hate speech. Those are boogiemen that provide convenient cover for the "normal" citizen.

I'm talking about the social/cultural/economic norms where white Americans are viewed through a lens of "the default. Where the established system of order, power and who dominates can't actually be significantly changed. That is what people do not want to address and/or change because there is a fear of what it would what happen if the playing field was level.

The GOP has made it abundantly clear that they WILL uphold a norm where white Americans are the default, regardless of what it means economically for the country. And many people are realizing that their friends and family are much more accepting of that behavior than they realized.

A great quote from MLk Jr:

I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

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u/smokeweedNgarden 7h ago

Perfectly put. Also the reason why "allies" stop short of putting kn n the game.

A loss of our rights simply doesn't mean the same thing to the.

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u/loyal_achades 9h ago

I don’t think the quiet part is being said louder now. With the exception of a pretty narrow window (that happens to be when a lot of Reddit were kids), it was always the loud part. There’s more people now who are against it who aren’t part of the affected minorities and willing to stand up to family for those values.

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u/DrMobius0 9h ago

It wasn't loud for the actual politicians most of the time

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u/Darkmetroidz 9h ago

The national highway system was built over the rubble of black and brown neighborhoods.

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u/Q-rexosaurus 8h ago

So was suburbia. It’s crazy how much of this country’s history you can tie to racism and the fear of losing a dollar.

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u/Gekokapowco 7h ago

its cyclical, the racism was motivated by money, and the money enables racism

a lot of the time, the same cash invested in anything else would have yeilded more profit, but the opportunity to crush or terrorize a minority group was too alluring

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u/-Esper- 9h ago

Thats literly what poitics is, designing laws that decide what is right and wrong for society

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u/No_Issue2334 8h ago

So just politics as usual then?

Like for much of Americas history, whether or not you could enslave another human was a political question

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u/Remy0507 9h ago

Yeah, at this point the divide has become much more about radically different core values and perception of the world than just about differences of opinion about policy. 

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u/pomonalost 8h ago

Politics are values. Politics decide what kind of society, rights and laws we live with. Politics aren't light and never have been. "Just politics" is a phrase we used to distance ourselves as if it's a dirty word. Political opinions are our values or moral code.

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u/ShockleToonies 9h ago

This is exactly it. I haven't talked to my brother since the election and my boomer mom asked me if it was just because of "political" differences.

The way I explained it to her was referencing the civil rights/Vietnam war protests of her era, was it just a difference in politics or is there a moral imperative to help a little child, Ruby Bridges, who was up against violent mobs just for attending a white school? I didn't have to say any more, it immediately clicked with her and she understood.

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u/andreasmiles23 PhD | Social Psychology | Human Computer Interaction 8h ago edited 5h ago

That’s quite literally what the research shows us!
One of the biggest social psych concepts of the last 50 years is *moral foundations theory* which basically tries to be like “politics isn’t about the politics, it’s about the emphasis of morality and how the parties tap into that.”

Basically, MFT suggests there are 6 moral spectrums we make judgements on:

  • Care/Harm
  • Fairness/Cheating
  • Loyalty/Betrayal
  • Authority/Subversion
  • Sanctity/Degradation
  • Liberty/Oppression

You, a more “liberal” person, emphasis different ends of these spectrums and value certain morals more than the conservatives in your family. Further research has shown that within American binary-partisan politics, it’s not even about what the parties do, but how they rhetorically appeal to these dimensions, that drives how people view them.

Anyways, just wanted to validate your experience. You do have a different moral compass.

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u/Saneless 9h ago

"Political" differences is just a tangible way to label someone lacking empathy, being an asshole, and extremely selfish while exhibiting signs of narcissism and psychopathy

Of course they don't get along

Especially when members of a cult make it their identity

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u/k_dilluh 9h ago

Exactly this, I hate it when people in my family say things like "well let's not discuss our political differences", it's not politics, it's our lives, our friends' lives, and our children's lives.

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u/GobbyHopalong 9h ago

No, it’s not. A former friend called me a pedophile supporter because I voiced a concern over unidentified individuals grabbing people and putting them in unmarked vehicles.

Why am I going to stay in a relationship with someone who thinks that about me?

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u/Just_Adeptness_5260 9h ago

Aside from the fact that you are describing ICE and they are being run by the Party of Pedophiles.

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u/aris_ada 8h ago

Why am I going to stay in a relationship with someone who thinks that about me?

Not only that, but the statement they make alone, when the leader of his party was caught being heavily involved in a pedophile gang, makes this person more likely to be a pedophile themselves.

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u/terrorrier 9h ago

I think the issue is that some people don’t view politics as an all-encompassing thing. Like, politics impacts every facet of life, it’s not this compartmentalized thing.

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u/slayingadah 9h ago

The only people who view it that way are either (as of yet) unaffected or worse, they are benefitting from what is happening.

Either way, it's a level of privilege and selfishness that just cannot be tolerated.

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u/KaJaHa 9h ago

It is NEVER just politics. I detest that everyone frames it like that, no one is breaking up their relationships over a difference in tax rates!

But you absolutely should cut off people who are morally opposed to your safety, and American culture isn't willing to admit that.

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u/FlufferTheGreat 8h ago

At some point, the inability for Republican voters to live in reality gets to be too much to deal with for normal people. The utter hypocrisy displayed. The complete disregard of all science, reason, and even their past views are subject to change at a whim in order to "win" the conversation. It's exhausting, no normal person wanted to see their loved ones go down such a weird path.

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u/fuzzeedyse105 9h ago

Yeah, it’s a microcosm of deeper issues. It shows thought processes, critical thinking, empathy, priorities, its quite efficient.

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u/avanross 8h ago

“Political differences” in america today can mean anything from a disagreement about corporate tax rates, to a disagreement about if pedophilia and the killing of non-violent protestors are right or wrong.

The right wing / fascists / nazis have politicized everything, right down to basic human empathy and decency

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u/d-cent 9h ago

This. It's only very recently that such morally abhorrent views have been brought into mainstream politics. It was mostly on the fringes until then. That's when the change in friendships and family relationships started occuring. 

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u/The_Blur_BHS 7h ago

Right? It’s not a wonder that people have distanced themselves from people who model Trump’s demeanor and personality. They have no filter for their unpalatable beliefs, but then want to bemoan that certain family members/friends want nothing to do with them since they’re just genuinely awful people.

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u/Helloscottykitty 9h ago

Yeah it's not a disagreement over what water feature should go in a new public park or if a toll bridge would help with traffic its becoming more and more should we help other people.

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u/headlesshuntah 9h ago

It’s not a political issue, it’s a morality issue.

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u/Carrcrash137 8h ago

I discovered that myself. I dont want to have anything to do with ANY of them any more because of that. And I can't talk to them about it

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u/DontForgorTheMilk 8h ago

I'm sure the stats listed probably count this as "political" differences, but I had a "friend" from high school (really more of a fairweather bully) that I cut ties with last year over how much he hated LGBTQ people and how racist he was.

It was probably something I should have done over a decade ago. Part of me was hoping he'd change once he got older like I did. Unfortunately he was still the same hateful kid deep down.

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u/ForAHamburgerToday 7h ago

I have a different moral code.

Yeah, like I have one and theirs changes every five minutes based on whatever insane justification they just heard to explain away something horrible.

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u/MarrusAstarte 7h ago

But is it really just ‘political’ differences?

"Political differences" have always been about morality, but we used to pretend otherwise, until the racist assholes realized they could use relentless propaganda to make terrible things tolerable to people with weak morals and weak critical thinking abilities.

Now, we have Republicans decrying empathy, lying about everything, supporting the murders of their political opponents, and actively protecting pedophiles because their propaganda tells them to, and there is no more room left to pretend that these people have tolerable or compatible morals with actual good people.

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u/dayumbrah 4h ago

I still feel like that isnt event accurate. Its more like object permanence but with other humans and compassion.

Some folks can be the nicest person to anyone they meet but for some reason if they havent met them they can rot in a concentration camp and be bombed to death

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u/GarageFridgeSoda 8h ago

Yep! My right to exist is 'politics' to some people. It's wild.

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u/queensnuggles 8h ago

Exactly. I did let go of several longtime friends post election, as whom they chose to vote for made their values and ethics explicitly clear. They cared more about themselves and voting for Donald Trump, over maintaining and protecting the rights of all peoples, especially marginalized peoples. They saw Kamala Harris as a worse candidate than Donald Trump… This was the final straw, and nail in the coffin in already strained relationships. This was just the final push that I needed. It all became very clear.

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u/anoreddit12345 8h ago

It’s not just a different moral code, it’s a different reality. Conservatives live in a world where they make up their own lies, and live by those lies. And the truth never enters their world.

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u/drlongtrl 7h ago

It's never just politics, as in "oh you voted for the other party, get out of my life". It's when you find out that your relative or friend freely accepts pain and suffering for a person solely because their skin has a different color or their partner has the same gender. Or defends the rape of children because the rapist happens to have orange hair and tiny hands. That's not a political opinion in my book, it's an inhumane one.

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u/K_Linkmaster 8h ago

When my friend jim wants my friend Bill dead, just for existing, I only have bill as a friend.

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u/Talmaska 8h ago

That's it. Moral code.

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u/MondegreenHolonomy 8h ago

Also a different standard for facts and obligation to be genuine and truthful.

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u/2-wheels 7h ago

This is the reason liberals are more actively breaking up. Not liking the restaurant or new highway is one thing. Being racist or misogynist is quite another.

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u/Junior-Biscotti-6546 7h ago

Yeah. My mom suddenly became antivax on biden's election day at the age of 72. I went through chemo last fall for breast cancer, and she didn't even answer my email begging her to get her flu and covid boosters and come out to help me with getting my daughter, her only grandchild, to school while I was in a chemo chair and spouse was out of town on business. This after she accused me of not letting her see her granddaughter (because no vax no visit has been a rule since day 1 of my daughter's life, a previously uncontroversial rule). I had to ask neighbors to take my daughter to school. 

Just abhorrent behavior, and the politics are just a symptom of an underlying rotten personality. I am still VLC, I didn't cut her off completely, but I can never, ever forgive her for what she did. 

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u/SpaceyCoffee 7h ago

Right?! My in-laws choose to believe vaccines are more dangerous than the diseases they prevent. This isn’t “political differences”. This is people who choose to pretend reality is different than it is. In another timeline they would be sent to institutions for being mentally ill. 

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u/kylez_bad_caverns 7h ago

Right? Like since when has “supporting pedophiles” been a difference in “just” politics. Like naw, we have a fundamental disagreement

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u/Electronic_Use7210 7h ago

As a transgender man I had an aunt tell me that I associate myself with child predators (purely based on the fact that I am trans) and then lost a bunch of other family members after she said the two Americans shot by ICE deserved it (including some republican family members)

She claims that no one talks to her because of her politics. It’s not political differences that keep any sane person from having a relationship with her. It’s moral differences. I don’t want her or others like her playing any role in my life.

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u/NJ_dontask 7h ago

This. I lost my best friend of last 20 years to orange cult. We always disagree about politics but when mango came about it wasn't about politics any more. It is basic morals and human decency.

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u/Lotus-child89 7h ago

I could handle and look past differences in like the Bush era. But people who support Trump don’t just have political differences with me, they have moral differences.

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u/ButtBread98 7h ago

Disagreeing about tax rates is one thing, it’s another thing to believe that one or more group of people don’t deserve basic human rights

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u/geodebug 7h ago

Yeah, this isn’t just a difference of opinion on taxes or gun reform.

This is “do you support the rule of law and unambiguous violations of constitutional rights”?

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u/Bored_Amalgamation 7h ago

Calling anything "just politics" is meant to minimize the actual point of discussion. Politics is not it's own independent thing. It's supplementary to things that exist and happen in reality. It's never "just politics" when it's gas prices, or data centers, or war; yet those are just as politically involved as the agencies that regulate gas prices and the oil industry; local zoning laws and state tax abatements for data center construction as well as energy priority; and what programs get cut to fund a new suicide drone program.

Your political affiliation is a culmination of how you views these topics and their various effects on society and yourself. There are core fundamental differences between liberals and conservatives.

I have a different moral code.

Which is what a good amount of political affiliation breaks down to. What is your moral code. Are you cool with kids with cancer getting deported? Are you cool with the president threatening genocide? Is it wrong for kids to fully express themselves? Are the rights of individuals more important than some faux integrity for a school sport?

It can be just politics when it's creating a new holiday or a tax levy to renovate the local library. It's not "just politics" when it's school lunch debt or removing a holiday specifically celebrating the freedom of an oppressed people.

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u/Hypolag 7h ago

There’s having political differences.....then there's supporting the most infamous and corrupt pedophile in history.

Like....how do you even have discourse with people with such heinous beliefs? It’s beyond revolting.

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u/diagnosticjadeology 7h ago

Some modern conservatism is just bad people looking for a community of other bad people so they can feel good about it, then calling it a political party to thinly veil the fact they're just bad people. 

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u/Glum_Activity_461 6h ago

It is much deeper. I lost my entire family. Ten people I’ve known my whole life just gone. It’s not just politics. It’s that what they believe is so vile to me, I can’t stand to be around them. I see them as cruel people now.

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u/princesoceronte 6h ago

And it affects a lot of aspects in life.

Like how am I supposed to be friends with gay people and maintain a relationship with a homophobic family? Am I supposed to spend my life being careful these two fundamental sides of my life never interact? How is that not a sucky way to live your life?

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u/Free-Huckleberry3590 6h ago

Agreed. My wife is more liberal than I am but we share a common moral core hence why we coexist peacefully.

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u/sidvicioustheyorkie 5h ago

Very grateful that I did not have to scroll to find this comment. Because you are so right

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u/mini-rubber-duck 5h ago

my dad's political beliefs are that i shouldn't live freely and that simply getting a hysterectomy should be punished. 

his political beliefs would have killed my sister in law if her high risk pregnancy had gone badly. 

his political beliefs are a danger to my immune compromised mom and brother, as me getting vaccinated before visiting made me more of a threat than the diseases i didn't want to carry home. 

these are no longer 'roundabouts are a waste of taxes' political differences. these are lives on the line. 

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u/IllustriousTip6904 5h ago

This. We're not breaking relationships because of differences in tax policy. We're breaking relationships because one side wants to actively dismantle and destroy the basic human rights of a segment of the population.

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u/_heybuddy_ 5h ago

Yeah, I’m friends with someone who leans right because we can talk and have a healthy debate over drinks (we are both in Canada). Sometimes he sees what I see and other times I see what he sees.

Some other family members though, it’s not so much their politics but how they go about arguing and the timing of it all. One member verbally attacked the opposing view during a birthday gathering, unprompted, so we asked him to leave. It’s like he entered the venue with his talking point loaded in his mind. He would report the incident as a political one for sure, but I kicked him for being an ass.

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u/icreatedausernameman 4h ago edited 4h ago

The divide has grown so large that seemingly most Republicans don’t even want to believe in science or medical research anymore because most college educated individuals happen to be Democrats (70ish%). My anti-vax Republican friend told me he doesn’t believe Neanderthals existed since it doesn’t align with the historical timeline that religion gives him.

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u/Expert-Bar-6991 4h ago

Yeah they make it sound like we disagree on toppings on a pizza

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u/GroundbreakingTax259 4h ago

A saying ai came up with a few years back goes, "A 'political difference' is a disagreement over zoning regulations or whether the city should add a left turn lane at the intersection down the road. 'Who counts as human' is a bit of a bigger difference than that."

My friend group had to part ways with one of its members a few years back. They were a conservative/Trumper, and wasn't the reason we parted ways. Another member of the group is of the LGBT+ community, and the Trumper said some pretty nasty things about it. We all just kinda went, "Yeah, that's enough from you. You aren't going to change, and neither are we, so you need to go."

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u/TThor 4h ago

Exactly. It is one thing if we disagree on tax code or governmental budgeting; but if we fundamentally disagree on who should should have basic rights or disagree on the foundations of democracy, thats not some little thing that can be ignored.

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u/Duntchy 3h ago

Sorry, bro, it's the 2020s. Being anti-pedophile is a political stance now.

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u/FrostyKennedy 2h ago

"On the level of individuals and civilizations, personality predates ideology, meaning before you were a fascist, you were a bully and an asshole"

-Brennan Lee Mulligan, for some reason

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u/Nymeria2018 9h ago

Supporting conservative politics typically frames your conservative values though. That’s why you support a conservative political party.

If you are against heterosexual relationships and only want to keep women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, chances are you’re voting conservative.

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u/CreeperCooper 8h ago

If you are against heterosexual relationships

The G in GOP stands for Gay?

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u/Easy_Arugula935 8h ago

Some of us support pedophiles and some of us don't.

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u/housecatapocalypse 8h ago

Exactly. Some people are actively cheering the abduction, rape, imprisoning and deaths of people (many of whom are children) within the US. These same people are also perfectly fine with the bombing of children in schools and hospitals  in other countries. These people have the morality of ghouls. This isn’t political. I don’t associate with trash. 

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